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Our monoculture practices have removed all the natural forage for native bees. They have nothing to eat amidst a sea of corn and soybean and thus they die. Addi

Our monoculture practices have removed all the natural forage for native bees. They have nothing to eat amidst a sea of corn and soybean and thus they die. Additionally, we routinely over-spray with neonicotinoids, which cause the deaths of native and non-native bees alike. So now the only way to pollinate fun foods (apples, cherries, almonds, blueberries, etc) is with the european honeybee (apis mellifera), but we are running out of hives due to pesticide use, overworking, and parasites (we're down to 1.8M hives in the US from 5.4M 30 years ago). If we could stop spraying with neonicotinoids and start planting natural forage (basically just regular weeds), we could undo this in just 10 years.

tptacek 7y ago
Can you connect this concern to the actual industry of pollination? Have pollination services become harder to procure, or dramatically more expensive, in the last 10 years?
- grailed 7y ago
  Yes! The cost of pollination (the service that most commercial beekeepers in the US make the vast majority of their income from) has risen something like 200% over the last 30 years. https://www.ers.usda.gov/webdocs/publications/37059/49131_special-article-september_-pollinator-service-market-4-.pdf?v=0 https://www.ers.usda.gov/webdocs/publications/37059/49131_sp...
  - tptacek 7y ago
    I'm looking at your document and it shows no such increase over the last 10 years. I'm less interested in the 30 year timespan, because other huge changes have occurred in that timespan, from shifts in agriculture to the collapse of honey bee populations due to the Varroa mite.
    - cycomanic 7y ago
      I'm not sure what your point is, but you're a bit disingenuous. The OP said a 200% increase over the last 30 years (he never talked about the last ten). The data in the document stops in 2011, but it is well over 200% (in particular there is quite a jump around 2004). If we assume that prices did not go down in the last 10 years (likely) his statement is still true.
      - tptacek 7y ago
        Reread the thread. I asked about the last 10 years; their response gave data over the last 30, but in the last 10 it's hovered between 100 and 125 (with lots of volatility). 2004 is, of course, more than 10 years ago. By way of context: in the 30 year timespan covered by their document, almond acreage in California has more than tripled.
    - sarewscx 7y ago
      Well, given no other piece of information, assume the annual rate is constant and calculate it like that. Or rate the cube root of 200% (30 year period = 3 * 10 year periods) = 26% increase in cost
      - tptacek 7y ago
        Look at the document. It contains the information we're discussing. There's no need to extrapolate.
    - grailed 7y ago
      Here is some more recent data: https://www.beeculture.com/2018-almond-pollination-market-outlook-demand-supply-contracts/ https://www.beeculture.com/2018-almond-pollination-market-ou... In 2017, the average price of pollination was $184.43/hive. That is up from $125/hive in 2011.
      - tptacek 7y ago
        This is a great source, because it goes into detail about supply and demand factors that are influencing those numbers, including a historic drought, hurricanes, and changes in California regulations about importing bee colonies.
    - mistrial9 7y ago
      pollination "services" by literally trucking bees to new fields is a business that was popularized by one man in recent history.. the actual results of this are repeatedly disastrous, it seems .. The quick-draw response to "show me the prices" is badly insensitive to the way nature has worked for millennia.. this subject is fundamental to society across continents, yet off-the-handle remarks make it sound like a choice of bubble-gum flavors.. basically offensive and superficial
  - perl4ever 7y ago
    I noticed that: - The CPI has doubled in the last 30 years; your link doesn't mention constant dollars that I noticed. - The line chart ends in 2011. - The sources of fees according to the chart in your link are very concentrated in almonds, which suggests they would be heavily impacted by the ups and downs of that industry. So, I'm not saying your assertion is false, but the most I can say about the link is that it doesn't contradict you.
jpollock 7y ago
Didn't Europe banned neonics? Is there any data showing a recovery?
- Aengeuad 7y ago
  There was only a temporary suspension in 2013 (wiki says two years) with the full ban only going into effect around the end of 2018, however two countries have issued emergency authorisation allowing the use of those pesticides regardless of the ban, I can't figure out which countries those are. https://www.euractiv.com/section/agriculture-food/news/eu-commission-to-crack-down-on-recalcitrant-member-states-over-neonicotinoids/ https://www.euractiv.com/section/agriculture-food/news/eu-co... I found a page mentioning pictures and statistics from Eurostat going up to 2016 but unless I'm blind there's no links and I don't see any pictures: https://www.bee-safe.eu/articles/bee-series/pesticide-use-in-europe-changes-and-stability/ https://www.bee-safe.eu/articles/bee-series/pesticide-use-in... It could take years to fully undo the damage or for it to become evident in statistics, and even when/if the bee population does rise you need to account for the non-bee pollinating insect population that might be more affected by weaker pesticides that aren't going to be banned.
  - Nasrudith 7y ago
    I don't see how it is toxicologically possible for it to not be statistically evident within years for insects. Taking time to fully recover sure, along with some persistence but not being statistically evident? That sounds very weird for any agent being diluted or dispersed over time - for any level of individual toxicity - let alone one decaying organic molecules.

tptacek 7y ago

Can you connect this concern to the actual industry of pollination? Have pollination services become harder to procure, or dramatically more expensive, in the last 10 years?

grailed 7y ago
Yes! The cost of pollination (the service that most commercial beekeepers in the US make the vast majority of their income from) has risen something like 200% over the last 30 years. https://www.ers.usda.gov/webdocs/publications/37059/49131_special-article-september_-pollinator-service-market-4-.pdf?v=0 https://www.ers.usda.gov/webdocs/publications/37059/49131_sp...
- tptacek 7y ago
  I'm looking at your document and it shows no such increase over the last 10 years. I'm less interested in the 30 year timespan, because other huge changes have occurred in that timespan, from shifts in agriculture to the collapse of honey bee populations due to the Varroa mite.
  - cycomanic 7y ago
    I'm not sure what your point is, but you're a bit disingenuous. The OP said a 200% increase over the last 30 years (he never talked about the last ten). The data in the document stops in 2011, but it is well over 200% (in particular there is quite a jump around 2004). If we assume that prices did not go down in the last 10 years (likely) his statement is still true.
    - tptacek 7y ago
      Reread the thread. I asked about the last 10 years; their response gave data over the last 30, but in the last 10 it's hovered between 100 and 125 (with lots of volatility). 2004 is, of course, more than 10 years ago. By way of context: in the 30 year timespan covered by their document, almond acreage in California has more than tripled.
  - sarewscx 7y ago
    Well, given no other piece of information, assume the annual rate is constant and calculate it like that. Or rate the cube root of 200% (30 year period = 3 * 10 year periods) = 26% increase in cost
    - tptacek 7y ago
      Look at the document. It contains the information we're discussing. There's no need to extrapolate.
  - grailed 7y ago
    Here is some more recent data: https://www.beeculture.com/2018-almond-pollination-market-outlook-demand-supply-contracts/ https://www.beeculture.com/2018-almond-pollination-market-ou... In 2017, the average price of pollination was $184.43/hive. That is up from $125/hive in 2011.
    - tptacek 7y ago
      This is a great source, because it goes into detail about supply and demand factors that are influencing those numbers, including a historic drought, hurricanes, and changes in California regulations about importing bee colonies.
  - mistrial9 7y ago
    pollination "services" by literally trucking bees to new fields is a business that was popularized by one man in recent history.. the actual results of this are repeatedly disastrous, it seems .. The quick-draw response to "show me the prices" is badly insensitive to the way nature has worked for millennia.. this subject is fundamental to society across continents, yet off-the-handle remarks make it sound like a choice of bubble-gum flavors.. basically offensive and superficial
- perl4ever 7y ago
  I noticed that: - The CPI has doubled in the last 30 years; your link doesn't mention constant dollars that I noticed. - The line chart ends in 2011. - The sources of fees according to the chart in your link are very concentrated in almonds, which suggests they would be heavily impacted by the ups and downs of that industry. So, I'm not saying your assertion is false, but the most I can say about the link is that it doesn't contradict you.

jpollock 7y ago

Didn't Europe banned neonics? Is there any data showing a recovery?

Aengeuad 7y ago
There was only a temporary suspension in 2013 (wiki says two years) with the full ban only going into effect around the end of 2018, however two countries have issued emergency authorisation allowing the use of those pesticides regardless of the ban, I can't figure out which countries those are. https://www.euractiv.com/section/agriculture-food/news/eu-commission-to-crack-down-on-recalcitrant-member-states-over-neonicotinoids/ https://www.euractiv.com/section/agriculture-food/news/eu-co... I found a page mentioning pictures and statistics from Eurostat going up to 2016 but unless I'm blind there's no links and I don't see any pictures: https://www.bee-safe.eu/articles/bee-series/pesticide-use-in-europe-changes-and-stability/ https://www.bee-safe.eu/articles/bee-series/pesticide-use-in... It could take years to fully undo the damage or for it to become evident in statistics, and even when/if the bee population does rise you need to account for the non-bee pollinating insect population that might be more affected by weaker pesticides that aren't going to be banned.
- Nasrudith 7y ago
  I don't see how it is toxicologically possible for it to not be statistically evident within years for insects. Taking time to fully recover sure, along with some persistence but not being statistically evident? That sounds very weird for any agent being diluted or dispersed over time - for any level of individual toxicity - let alone one decaying organic molecules.