7 ms·

I honestly don't understand the distinction? The article is legit, because somehow it has authority by being published in a random media outlet? Is that it? Whe

I honestly don't understand the distinction? The article is legit, because somehow it has authority by being published in a random media outlet? Is that it? Whereas my opinion is "flamebait" because I don't have authority? Yes, I disagree with her. Not because of her old age, but because she seriously claimed the scenario of Handmaid's Tale was near. There were people demonstrating in Handmaid's Tale costumes, and she was cheering them on. If anything, THAT is "political flamebait" - claiming we are entering Handmaid's Tale territory. It was and is ridiculous (unless you believe fundamentalist Islam will take over eventually, which for PC reasons I assume we don't), and that is why I don't hold much stock in her writings anymore. Not because of her old age. And the article is applauding her for "political flamebait", so by extension, it pretty much also is "political flamebait". That's my opinion anyway. But I'm sure it will be considered "political flamebait" by HN.

pvg 7y ago
The distinction is the article is some personal recollections about an author whose, you know, actual literary work many (including plenty who don't agree with her) consider important and your comment is a generic dismissal barely even related to said article. As distinctions go, it doesn't seem like a very difficult one to make.
- big_chungus 7y ago
  So it's wrong not because it's political but because it's "generic"? Or because you believe it's a poor argument? Those aren't against HN guidelines. "Political flamebait" seems to involve in no small part disagreement withtm the majority.
  - dang 7y ago
    Generic tangents are indeed against the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html, and there's a long body of explanations about why: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20generic&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que.... If you take a look at that and there's still something I haven't addressed, I'd be curious to know what it is. It's important that moderation based on "political flamebait" not simply reduce to the political preferences of the moderators. We work consciously at that, and have years of practice. I don't think there's any political position that we haven't moderated (and even banned) users for expressing in ways that break the site guidelines. One dynamic that affects this is that when people are disagreeing with the majority, they often feel defensive, which causes them to lash out more in ways that break the site rules more. Then we moderate them for that, which makes them sure that they're being moderated because of their views, which makes them more defensive and lash out even more. This is a tricky one. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20discredit&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
- pksdjfikkkkdsff 7y ago
  What about my "dismissal" is generic? I gave a specific reason for my dismissal. "Ok Boomer" or "she is old" would have been generic, but that is not what I wrote. I didn't mention her age at all.
  - pvg 7y ago
    I didn't mention her age at all. "I guess she should be excused for being ridiculous because of her old age" is about half your comment.
    - pksdjfikkkkdsff 7y ago
      I forgot I mentioned the age - but still, it is in the opposite sense. It is not part of the reason I "dismiss" her now, I only mentioned it to soften the criticism. In any case, why shouldn't her actions be relevant? To me, it changed my opinion about her. Why wouldn't it be relevant for others, too?
      - pvg 7y ago
        Maybe they are relevant but you'd have to put it in some way that describes their relevance. "Old lady, trump, fite me!" is not a meaningful attempt to start a discussion which is why you got groused at by a mod and flagged by users. It's not even clear she ever actually made the type of claim you're describing but the form of the comment is so poopy that's mostly beside the point.
        pksdjfikkkkdsff 7y ago
        Again, that is not what I said. I said she endorsed a specific claim about the development in US society, that is absolutely ridiculous. It has nothing to do with Trump or her age. And what do you mean by "it is not even clear"? That is your criticism, that you flat out don't believe me? Then just say so right away, and don't make up phony reasons to dismiss my tweet. I don't care enough about you to google for her specific statements, though. If you don't believe me, fine, whatever. And my comment is "poopy"? I mentioned a specific reason why I don't hold her in high regard anymore. Yeah, she is a woman and she is old, but I am still allowed to not revere her. I know that is hard for liberals to grasp.

pvg 7y ago

The distinction is the article is some personal recollections about an author whose, you know, actual literary work many (including plenty who don't agree with her) consider important and your comment is a generic dismissal barely even related to said article. As distinctions go, it doesn't seem like a very difficult one to make.

big_chungus 7y ago
So it's wrong not because it's political but because it's "generic"? Or because you believe it's a poor argument? Those aren't against HN guidelines. "Political flamebait" seems to involve in no small part disagreement withtm the majority.
- dang 7y ago
  Generic tangents are indeed against the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html, and there's a long body of explanations about why: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20generic&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que.... If you take a look at that and there's still something I haven't addressed, I'd be curious to know what it is. It's important that moderation based on "political flamebait" not simply reduce to the political preferences of the moderators. We work consciously at that, and have years of practice. I don't think there's any political position that we haven't moderated (and even banned) users for expressing in ways that break the site guidelines. One dynamic that affects this is that when people are disagreeing with the majority, they often feel defensive, which causes them to lash out more in ways that break the site rules more. Then we moderate them for that, which makes them sure that they're being moderated because of their views, which makes them more defensive and lash out even more. This is a tricky one. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20discredit&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
pksdjfikkkkdsff 7y ago
What about my "dismissal" is generic? I gave a specific reason for my dismissal. "Ok Boomer" or "she is old" would have been generic, but that is not what I wrote. I didn't mention her age at all.
- pvg 7y ago
  I didn't mention her age at all. "I guess she should be excused for being ridiculous because of her old age" is about half your comment.
  - pksdjfikkkkdsff 7y ago
    I forgot I mentioned the age - but still, it is in the opposite sense. It is not part of the reason I "dismiss" her now, I only mentioned it to soften the criticism. In any case, why shouldn't her actions be relevant? To me, it changed my opinion about her. Why wouldn't it be relevant for others, too?
    - pvg 7y ago
      Maybe they are relevant but you'd have to put it in some way that describes their relevance. "Old lady, trump, fite me!" is not a meaningful attempt to start a discussion which is why you got groused at by a mod and flagged by users. It's not even clear she ever actually made the type of claim you're describing but the form of the comment is so poopy that's mostly beside the point.
      - pksdjfikkkkdsff 7y ago
        Again, that is not what I said. I said she endorsed a specific claim about the development in US society, that is absolutely ridiculous. It has nothing to do with Trump or her age. And what do you mean by "it is not even clear"? That is your criticism, that you flat out don't believe me? Then just say so right away, and don't make up phony reasons to dismiss my tweet. I don't care enough about you to google for her specific statements, though. If you don't believe me, fine, whatever. And my comment is "poopy"? I mentioned a specific reason why I don't hold her in high regard anymore. Yeah, she is a woman and she is old, but I am still allowed to not revere her. I know that is hard for liberals to grasp.