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> doing business in China is different and relies on of relationship building that takes a long time to nurture That's a strange way of saying they require a C

by seppin 7y ago

> doing business in China is different and relies on of relationship building that takes a long time to nurture That's a strange way of saying they require a Chinese national to be part owner, and if it grows enough the party will seize it all.

AYBABTME 7y ago
Maybe GP actually referred to business cultural practices, which are indeed different in China. Have you considered this? Not everything related to China is black/white as you seem to portray it. There's more to it than a reductionist approach of thinking "they're mean communists and everything follows from that". * I dislike the tendency of some people to prohibits others from looking at things in a nuanced manner.
- arcticfox 7y ago
  Cultural differences might make business in China difficult for internationals; political differences are what make it both ethically and strategically untenable. There's no comparison.
  - AYBABTME 7y ago
    I didn't say otherwise. But not everyone's reason for leaving the market is going to be because of evil governance. Always simplifying interactions with China and the people and businesses there to a black/white scenario is counterproductive and intellectually disingenuous.
DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
I don't think there are ownership restrictions in this economic sector, and the Chinese government hasn't seized Alibaba, Tencent or Huawei. It sounds like you're talking more out of preconceived biases than actual knowledge of how business works in China.
- throwaway2048 7y ago
  They haven't seized them outright maybe, but they are owned by Chinese citizens and carefully managed by the government, The CEO and founder of Huawei is a member of the communist party, the government also requires a large staff of military intelligence workers. Do not assume the strong distinction in the west between private entities and the government exists in China. In China if you are of any real size whatsoever as a company, the government is either taking a role in things directly, or you are going to be forced out.
  - DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
    Of course they're owned by Chinese citizens. That's why I chose them as examples, rather than other big companies with a large presence in China, such as Volkswagen or Apple. > carefully managed by the government That's not true. They make business decisions based on the profit motive. > The CEO and founder of Huawei is a member of the communist party That's not very meaningful. There are a lot of people who are members of the party. > Do not assume the strong distinction in the west between private entities and the government exists in China. I think that a lot of people in this forum (and other fora in the West) do not understand the basic economic reforms that China has gone through. There is a huge difference between how a private company like Tencent operates and how a state-owned enterprise operates. It has been government policy over the past few decades to allow the private economy to grow, and to allow it to operate according to profit considerations. Companies and people in China do not have the same sorts of protections should the government decide to go after them, but it's not as if the government controls the decision-making of private companies. > In China if you are of any real size whatsoever as a company, the government is either taking a role in things directly, or you are going to be forced out. This simply isn't true. The Chinese government does not run Alibaba, and doing so would actually go against the direction of Chinese economic reforms over the past few decades.
    - throwaway2048 7y ago
      I never stated that these types of "private" enterprise aren't different than traditional Chinese state owned enterprise, they absolutely beyond a shadow of a doubt are. The Chinese government does not operate them directly, but it has a direct hand in how they are run in a way that simply does not have a parallel in the west. An analogy might be an American company appointing high ranking government people (who are still active in government) to their board of directors, accepting special government run departments, and working closely with the government on goals and policy. That sort of thing is entirely unheard of, outside of perhaps defense contractors in the USA, but even there, there is clear division between private and public interests.

by seppin 7y ago

AYBABTME 7y ago

Maybe GP actually referred to business cultural practices, which are indeed different in China. Have you considered this? Not everything related to China is black/white as you seem to portray it. There's more to it than a reductionist approach of thinking "they're mean communists and everything follows from that". * I dislike the tendency of some people to prohibits others from looking at things in a nuanced manner.

arcticfox 7y ago
Cultural differences might make business in China difficult for internationals; political differences are what make it both ethically and strategically untenable. There's no comparison.
- AYBABTME 7y ago
  I didn't say otherwise. But not everyone's reason for leaving the market is going to be because of evil governance. Always simplifying interactions with China and the people and businesses there to a black/white scenario is counterproductive and intellectually disingenuous.

DiogenesKynikos 7y ago

I don't think there are ownership restrictions in this economic sector, and the Chinese government hasn't seized Alibaba, Tencent or Huawei. It sounds like you're talking more out of preconceived biases than actual knowledge of how business works in China.

throwaway2048 7y ago
They haven't seized them outright maybe, but they are owned by Chinese citizens and carefully managed by the government, The CEO and founder of Huawei is a member of the communist party, the government also requires a large staff of military intelligence workers. Do not assume the strong distinction in the west between private entities and the government exists in China. In China if you are of any real size whatsoever as a company, the government is either taking a role in things directly, or you are going to be forced out.
- DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
  Of course they're owned by Chinese citizens. That's why I chose them as examples, rather than other big companies with a large presence in China, such as Volkswagen or Apple. > carefully managed by the government That's not true. They make business decisions based on the profit motive. > The CEO and founder of Huawei is a member of the communist party That's not very meaningful. There are a lot of people who are members of the party. > Do not assume the strong distinction in the west between private entities and the government exists in China. I think that a lot of people in this forum (and other fora in the West) do not understand the basic economic reforms that China has gone through. There is a huge difference between how a private company like Tencent operates and how a state-owned enterprise operates. It has been government policy over the past few decades to allow the private economy to grow, and to allow it to operate according to profit considerations. Companies and people in China do not have the same sorts of protections should the government decide to go after them, but it's not as if the government controls the decision-making of private companies. > In China if you are of any real size whatsoever as a company, the government is either taking a role in things directly, or you are going to be forced out. This simply isn't true. The Chinese government does not run Alibaba, and doing so would actually go against the direction of Chinese economic reforms over the past few decades.
  - throwaway2048 7y ago
    I never stated that these types of "private" enterprise aren't different than traditional Chinese state owned enterprise, they absolutely beyond a shadow of a doubt are. The Chinese government does not operate them directly, but it has a direct hand in how they are run in a way that simply does not have a parallel in the west. An analogy might be an American company appointing high ranking government people (who are still active in government) to their board of directors, accepting special government run departments, and working closely with the government on goals and policy. That sort of thing is entirely unheard of, outside of perhaps defense contractors in the USA, but even there, there is clear division between private and public interests.