4 ms·

While I agree with the sentiment, I don't understand how this helps: all of these platforms prioritize sort order based upon likes/popularity/engagement. You're

by meritt 7y ago

While I agree with the sentiment, I don't understand how this helps: all of these platforms prioritize sort order based upon likes/popularity/engagement. You're just putting yourself at an information disadvantage by hiding the metrics while doing nothing to remedy that you're still primarily consuming content based entirely on likes.

Cthulhu_ 7y ago
I'm not sure if that's true anymore; I read the other day that e.g. Youtube's algorithm works with engagement, that is, the sum of up- and downvotes. Because downvotes don't mean it's a bad video anymore, it means that people disagree with it - but still would watch it. The algorithm probably also takes views, time watched (until voted), total time watched etc into consideration though. And some magic sauce depending on how advertiser friendly it is, which likely explains why the default suggestions (in anonymous browsing mode) are so weird.
RenRav 7y ago
I already adblock the Like elements from the sites I browse. It's less clutter on screen and if you never vote it serves no purpose. A lot of that stuff is 3rd party junk anyway. It would probably be simpler to just release an adblock filter instead of having another redudant addon, but I'm okay with its purpose.
rmsaksida 7y ago
Instagram has been testing hiding likes for over a year now. They've recently begun testing in the US [1], so there's a good chance they'll hide them for real worldwide. I don't know if Facebook will follow through, but IG will definitely set a precedent. 1. https://later.com/blog/hidden-likes-instagram/ https://later.com/blog/hidden-likes-instagram/
- plorntus 7y ago
  They are gone in Spain at least. They show 2 people you know and then its just "and others" with no way of seeing a full count.
dkthehuman 7y ago
Likes themselves (and ranking content using them) aren't the problem — it's their public nature that makes it feel as if our social value is determined by them. If likes, followers, etc. were private (that is, you could see who liked your post but no one else could), you wouldn't worry about what others would think of you based on those numbers. But since they're public and prominently displayed, we equate those numbers to our social value and end up with undesirable effects like comparing ourselves to others and focusing on what would get approval rather than what's authentic.
- greggman2 7y ago
  My experience is different. Upvotes/downvotes are not public on HN and yet I obsess about them. I've hidden them because of that. It's not about comparing since I can't see anyone else's. I don't want to see the numbers, as it makes me think about the numbers. I rather want to see replies.
swsieber 7y ago
So would you rather HN display points on comments?
- thisBrian 7y ago
  It seemed pretty clear that the GP was saying if the platform already shows points/likes, hiding them only from yourself is a disadvantage. With that said, I believe it can function similar to all those no-procrastination tools; allowing those that want to stop the feedback loop of likes to ween themselves off of it. More of a personal growth tool than a societal solution.
- RandallBrown 7y ago
  I wish they did. I was bummed when they hide them.
swilliamsio 7y ago
Your concerns are valid if you are the type of person/organisation who worries about how many likes they get. I post to Instagram purely for my own amusement, and only use the feed to catch up with family and friends - I really don't care how many likes I get or any post I view gets.
josephg 7y ago
I used a similar extension a few years ago which just targeted facebook; and it made a big difference for me in how I experienced the site. Before I used it I would find myself checking FB sometimes throughout the day after posting something, because some part of me wanted to know how popular it was. The metric being front and center made part of my brain want to optimize for it. After installing the extension I couldn't really know how many people saw what I wrote except vaguely by looking at who commented or something. And as a result I found myself being less self conscious when I posted things - since there was no negative "not many likes" signal I found myself writing more what was actually on my mind. (Rather than what I thought my friends wanted to read). I hear what you're saying about being at an information disadvantage - but that only matters if "number of likes" is something you're trying to optimize for. I think thats a pretty shallow way to live your life. There's lots of other reasons to speak and listen than how "liked" those words are in the moment. If we rated food the same way we'd only eat junk food. If we raised children optimizing for likes they'd grow up stunted. If we rated academic papers that way we wouldn't even know about the replication crisis. Ironically when I couldn't see the number of likes on FB, I think what I posted was more interesting as a result anyway. It was certainly more authentic, since while authoring I spent more brain cells thinking about what I wanted to say rather than obsessing about social perception. Every person who's opinion you're worried about when you write makes your writing about 1% worse - which isn't much, but it adds up. The only real downside was that the extension didn't work on my phone, so I'd end up seeing the numbers of FB likes there anyway. I ended up deleting FB year or two later because it was still too addictive, but I think this extension is a great idea. It doesn't cost anything to try it out. If you're not sure, run the experiment and see if you have the same experience I did.
cellular 7y ago
Someone could rewrite Facebook with some minor tweaks and become very successful!
juped 7y ago
Set your platform to chronological sort if you can. If you can't, then this plugin is still good and complements a hypothetical plugin that forces chronological sorts.
_def 7y ago
Like stated on the page it probably helps to stop comparing yourself to others. You call it "information disadvantage", but exactly this is the feature. Social media is distorting our views. I see your point though, this doesn't defeat any biased algorhitms. But I don't think that is the point of this addon either.

by meritt 7y ago

Cthulhu_ 7y ago

I'm not sure if that's true anymore; I read the other day that e.g. Youtube's algorithm works with engagement, that is, the sum of up- and downvotes. Because downvotes don't mean it's a bad video anymore, it means that people disagree with it - but still would watch it. The algorithm probably also takes views, time watched (until voted), total time watched etc into consideration though. And some magic sauce depending on how advertiser friendly it is, which likely explains why the default suggestions (in anonymous browsing mode) are so weird.

RenRav 7y ago

I already adblock the Like elements from the sites I browse. It's less clutter on screen and if you never vote it serves no purpose. A lot of that stuff is 3rd party junk anyway. It would probably be simpler to just release an adblock filter instead of having another redudant addon, but I'm okay with its purpose.

rmsaksida 7y ago

Instagram has been testing hiding likes for over a year now. They've recently begun testing in the US [1], so there's a good chance they'll hide them for real worldwide. I don't know if Facebook will follow through, but IG will definitely set a precedent. 1. https://later.com/blog/hidden-likes-instagram/ https://later.com/blog/hidden-likes-instagram/

plorntus 7y ago
They are gone in Spain at least. They show 2 people you know and then its just "and others" with no way of seeing a full count.

dkthehuman 7y ago

Likes themselves (and ranking content using them) aren't the problem — it's their public nature that makes it feel as if our social value is determined by them. If likes, followers, etc. were private (that is, you could see who liked your post but no one else could), you wouldn't worry about what others would think of you based on those numbers. But since they're public and prominently displayed, we equate those numbers to our social value and end up with undesirable effects like comparing ourselves to others and focusing on what would get approval rather than what's authentic.

greggman2 7y ago
My experience is different. Upvotes/downvotes are not public on HN and yet I obsess about them. I've hidden them because of that. It's not about comparing since I can't see anyone else's. I don't want to see the numbers, as it makes me think about the numbers. I rather want to see replies.

swsieber 7y ago

So would you rather HN display points on comments?

thisBrian 7y ago
It seemed pretty clear that the GP was saying if the platform already shows points/likes, hiding them only from yourself is a disadvantage. With that said, I believe it can function similar to all those no-procrastination tools; allowing those that want to stop the feedback loop of likes to ween themselves off of it. More of a personal growth tool than a societal solution.
RandallBrown 7y ago
I wish they did. I was bummed when they hide them.

swilliamsio 7y ago

Your concerns are valid if you are the type of person/organisation who worries about how many likes they get. I post to Instagram purely for my own amusement, and only use the feed to catch up with family and friends - I really don't care how many likes I get or any post I view gets.

josephg 7y ago

I used a similar extension a few years ago which just targeted facebook; and it made a big difference for me in how I experienced the site. Before I used it I would find myself checking FB sometimes throughout the day after posting something, because some part of me wanted to know how popular it was. The metric being front and center made part of my brain want to optimize for it. After installing the extension I couldn't really know how many people saw what I wrote except vaguely by looking at who commented or something. And as a result I found myself being less self conscious when I posted things - since there was no negative "not many likes" signal I found myself writing more what was actually on my mind. (Rather than what I thought my friends wanted to read). I hear what you're saying about being at an information disadvantage - but that only matters if "number of likes" is something you're trying to optimize for. I think thats a pretty shallow way to live your life. There's lots of other reasons to speak and listen than how "liked" those words are in the moment. If we rated food the same way we'd only eat junk food. If we raised children optimizing for likes they'd grow up stunted. If we rated academic papers that way we wouldn't even know about the replication crisis. Ironically when I couldn't see the number of likes on FB, I think what I posted was more interesting as a result anyway. It was certainly more authentic, since while authoring I spent more brain cells thinking about what I wanted to say rather than obsessing about social perception. Every person who's opinion you're worried about when you write makes your writing about 1% worse - which isn't much, but it adds up. The only real downside was that the extension didn't work on my phone, so I'd end up seeing the numbers of FB likes there anyway. I ended up deleting FB year or two later because it was still too addictive, but I think this extension is a great idea. It doesn't cost anything to try it out. If you're not sure, run the experiment and see if you have the same experience I did.

cellular 7y ago

Someone could rewrite Facebook with some minor tweaks and become very successful!

juped 7y ago

Set your platform to chronological sort if you can. If you can't, then this plugin is still good and complements a hypothetical plugin that forces chronological sorts.

_def 7y ago

Like stated on the page it probably helps to stop comparing yourself to others. You call it "information disadvantage", but exactly this is the feature. Social media is distorting our views. I see your point though, this doesn't defeat any biased algorhitms. But I don't think that is the point of this addon either.