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I think a fascinating part of Alyx is Valve choosing a female protagonist. 85%+ of VR users are male, compared to say 70/30 male/female balance of say Fornite.

I think a fascinating part of Alyx is Valve choosing a female protagonist. 85%+ of VR users are male, compared to say 70/30 male/female balance of say Fornite. (1/2) Any way you carve it the audience for Alyx is going to weight heavily male. And research suggests that gender-swapping in VR is a profound psychological experience: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/8260949 https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/8260949 (1) https://www.rakutenintelligence.com/blog/2016/virtual-reality-mostly-mobile https://www.rakutenintelligence.com/blog/2016/virtual-realit... (2) https://www.statista.com/statistics/865625/fortnite-players-gender/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/865625/fortnite-players-... (3) https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/8260949 https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/8260949

bluthru 7y ago
Gordon was famously mute and his hands and forearms were hidden. This allowed anyone to easily immerse themselves. (Same for Portal.) Unlike a third person game where you're controlling a character, I could see how having a different voice and hands in VR would be odd. I bet Valve realized that a mute protagonist no longer works in a story-driven environment.
- Baeocystin 7y ago
  I remember reading various making of stories regarding the half-life world back when it was still relatively new, and even then the designers spent a lot of time talking about how difficult it was having a mute, non-interactive protagonist. What they pulled off is excellent considering the state of gaming at the time, but I think you're right in that it just wouldn't fly today.
  - dmix 7y ago
    South Park did a really good job with a mute character in both of their recent games. It became almost a running joke in how the conversations would flow and the silence was taken as support for whatever the speaking person wanted it to mean, highlighting narcissism or teasing societal expectations.
archarios 7y ago
OH NOES VALVE IS GOING TO MAKE US ALL TRANS WHAT A TRAGEDY
- mffnbs 7y ago
  As a trans person, I welcome this cis introduction to gender dysphoria.
  - smabie 7y ago
    I get what you’re saying, but wouldn’t you of all people agree that it’s a bad thing and something you want to minimize or eliminate in humanity? On a side note, I always thought VR could be a great way to test drive a new gender/body. The surgery is serious business especially if you are young. It would be cool if there a walking simulator type thing that let you customize your gender and looks and walk around. Might help some people decide if it’s for them without having to do something that’s expensive and irreversible.
    - mffnbs 7y ago
      It was mainly a joke, but yeah I thought about the implications of what I was saying. I think, at least for me, the lack of permanence creates a more lighthearted situation that is easier to joke about. It's disorienting seeing yourself as an entirely different gender but it's more distressing not being able to control it or society's perception of it. Honestly, I never thought about using VR for this purpose before. I'm slightly excited to give it a try and see how my brain enjoys/dislikes the effect.
  - chroma 7y ago
    I've played a few VR games that allow you to customize your avatar. I've tried male bodies, female bodies, robot bodies, ridiculous carton bodies... everything. At no point did I feel that anything was wrong or out of place. This is true for everyone who I've loaned my headset to. I think trans people are overgeneralizing from their own psyches. They feel like they are in the wrong body, and they assume that everyone else would feel the same if they were body-swapped into the opposite sex. But as far as I can tell, only a tiny fraction of people experience this. Gender dysphoria seems to be about as common as aphantasia or synesthesia. Personally, I don't think of my body as part of my identity. It's a machine that I ride around in. If I woke up in the body of a woman, I'd be really annoyed but I doubt I'd go through years of hormones and surgery to be perceived as a man again. It would be easier to learn how to use the new body than to try to make it closer to what I'm used to.
himinlomax 7y ago
> I think a fascinating part of Alyx is Valve choosing a female protagonist. There has been other games with a female protagonist, but the backlash was so bad against them that they were completely forgotten. I know it's obscure, but you can look it up, there's those two games called "Portal" and "Portal 2", and the two main characters are female. You've probably never heard of them because of all the misogyny. ... or something.
- reificator 7y ago
  To be honest I'm surprised that there wasn't any backlash. I find the weight and attractiveness jokes that GLaDOS throws at the player absolutely hilarious. But that can be a touchy subject, especially with Chell as the protagonist instead of, say, Gordon Freeman.
  - himinlomax 7y ago
    There was no backlash because nobody whatsoever has a problem with a female protagonist. What some people have a problem is recasting an iconic character as a woman for the sake of "diversity," or any form of forced diversity for that matter.
    - reificator 7y ago
      I ask this earnestly: Did you read past the first sentence in my previous post? I wasn't suggesting that there would be backlash with a female protagonist. I was suggesting there could have been backlash to the way that protagonist was treated, due to her gender.
      - himinlomax 7y ago
        Sorry, I didn't understand because what you meant seems so strange. I can't believe anyone without a major psychotic breakdown would take personally what an obvious recording says about a virtual character you're just happening to be controlling.
mlindner 7y ago
Female protagonists in game is the new fad. It has nothing to do with the gender ratio of the players playing the game.
- outworlder 7y ago
  As sibling posts are pointing out, that's not new for Valve at all. They have been doing this for decades at this point.
- puranjay 7y ago
  I doubt Valve decided on the protagonist recently. This has to have been years in the making
- KON_Air 7y ago
  I can see that happening but consider this; the closest "character" they have to "player character" with a voice is Alyx.
- SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
  Lara Croft would like a word. Or Samus, if you want to go back even further.
hirundo 7y ago
> I think a fascinating part of Alyx is Valve choosing a female protagonist. It's in a lot of good company in that respect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Video_games_featuring_female_protagonists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Video_games_featuring... I doubt that VR is more than incremental in terms of creating an illusion of gender.
theandrewbailey 7y ago
It's a pattern with Valve. Remember Chell? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chell_(Portal) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chell_(Portal)
- murph-almighty 7y ago
  True, but Chell had no speaking lines (not hating on Valve, Gordon Freeman/basically all their 1st person protagonists are mute). We've seen Alyx as a developed character who's gone through some trauma (not spoiling here) so I'd argue this is a bit more exciting.
erk__ 7y ago
Another interesting thing is that this is going to be the first valve game where the protagonist actually talks.
faissaloo 7y ago
>stereotype threatening situations have been linked to the inability to recruit and retain women into these fields Come on, we know the inability to recruit and retain women in these fields is down to a culture that simply does not value the contributions of women in STEM as highly as their contributions in other 'industries'.
thanatos_dem 7y ago
It’s not new tho, Chelle in portal was a female protagonist, and that game has been VR’d to hell and back. I think Alyx makes sense as a protagonist given how prominent of a character she was in HL2, regardless of gender.
- jorams 7y ago
  > that game has been VR’d to hell and back. What do you mean by this? As far as I can see there is no actual VR port of Portal. You can play it through something like VorpX, which gets you 3D display through a headset, but that can hardly be called "VR'd to hell and back".
  - thanatos_dem 7y ago
    Yeah, maybe “to hell and back” was strong, but it was used as the setting for “The Lab”, one of Valve’s first VR demos, and there’s a mod called “Portal Stories VR” which is one of the most developed and popular VR mods currently.
sparky_z 7y ago
Eh, I don't think it's as big of a deal as you're suggesting. Alyx is pretty much the only choice if they wanted to use a pre-existing character as an action protagonist set between HL1 & 2. And from the trailer, it looks like the only "gendered" thing about the player's avatar is the voiceover. That's not a "body swap illusion" like the paper is talking about. In principal, I don't see it having any more deep psychological effect than, say, Perfect Dark. (1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_Dark https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_Dark
- danharaj 7y ago
  Adrian Shephard's still lying around tho :^)
  - z3phyr 7y ago
    I guess gearbox owns the character??
- reificator 7y ago
  > Alyx is pretty much the only choice if they wanted to use a pre-existing character as an action protagonist set between HL1 & 2. Before I say this, note I'm looking forward to playing as Alyx, and don't expect gender to make much of a difference in a game/story like this. But as far as not having options, I disagree. Barney was already a playable character in Blue Shift, he's shown to be relevant to the plot in HL2. Not only that but he's undercover at least some of the time, opening up gameplay avenues that Alyx wouldn't have available. Not that I'm suggesting that HL in VR needs a Papers Please style minigame or anything...
jczhang 7y ago
Not sure i understand the TLDR of the IEE study.. what does stereotype lift and induced stereotype threat even mean?
- CompanionCuuube 7y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype_threat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype_threat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype_threat#Stereotype_lift_and_stereotype_boost https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype_threat#Stereotype_l...
kiddico 7y ago
How is this different than a gender swap in a non-vr game? I'll have to join vr chat as a girl tonight and see how things go. That said I normally play star citizen w/ a female avatar, and other than thinking "the person I'm talking to might think I'm a girl" my mindset doesn't change much...
- Shivetya 7y ago
  I think the disappointing part is there is so little choice in the avatar you can play in these games. I would like something with how bioware approached SWTOR, the dialog changes, voice actor swap included, to match the gender of the character and from there it is just as easy to adapt skin colors and features. Even better, her name is about as neutral as you can ask for!
- haolez 7y ago
  Maybe looking down and seeing big breasts (assuming that's the case with Alyx) triggers something uncomfortable in a male's brain. Maybe we can feel like what it is to be trans and feel that your body "isn't right" for you.
  - loeg 7y ago
    > (assuming that's the case with Alyx) Uhh. Nope: https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/half-life/images/9/9f/D1_eli_010011.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090528010536&path-prefix=en https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/half-life/images/9/9f/D1... https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/65727186/0000000311.0.jpg https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/65727186/... The character isn't 90s Lara Croft.
    - haolez 7y ago
      Thanks. The art looks awesome, btw
      - hombre_fatal 7y ago
        They're from Half-Life 2 btw.
Impossible 7y ago
It's an interesting choice by Valve. They're basically making a bunch of white men play as a black woman. In practice I agree with the other response that it's not a big deal. Most VR experiences either race or gender swap me (I'm a black male) or turn me into an abstract form or a robot. It can be disorienting at first but you get used to it.
pteraspidomorph 7y ago
From what I've seen in VR platforms that support custom avatars (even in modded Beat Saber), the userbase may be male but most of them want to be in female bodies...
koonsolo 7y ago
From a business perspective it makes total sense. I saw a GDC talk where they laid out the statistics: - Most men don't mind playing a female character (think Lara Croft). - Most women prefer to play a female character. So the real question is why there aren't more game studios using female protagonists.
- viklove 7y ago
  There are plenty of games with female protagonists though, Horizon: Zero Dawn, Mirror's Edge, Portal, Last of Us 2 (just to name a few).

bluthru 7y ago

Gordon was famously mute and his hands and forearms were hidden. This allowed anyone to easily immerse themselves. (Same for Portal.) Unlike a third person game where you're controlling a character, I could see how having a different voice and hands in VR would be odd. I bet Valve realized that a mute protagonist no longer works in a story-driven environment.

Baeocystin 7y ago
I remember reading various making of stories regarding the half-life world back when it was still relatively new, and even then the designers spent a lot of time talking about how difficult it was having a mute, non-interactive protagonist. What they pulled off is excellent considering the state of gaming at the time, but I think you're right in that it just wouldn't fly today.
- dmix 7y ago
  South Park did a really good job with a mute character in both of their recent games. It became almost a running joke in how the conversations would flow and the silence was taken as support for whatever the speaking person wanted it to mean, highlighting narcissism or teasing societal expectations.

archarios 7y ago

OH NOES VALVE IS GOING TO MAKE US ALL TRANS WHAT A TRAGEDY

mffnbs 7y ago
As a trans person, I welcome this cis introduction to gender dysphoria.
- smabie 7y ago
  I get what you’re saying, but wouldn’t you of all people agree that it’s a bad thing and something you want to minimize or eliminate in humanity? On a side note, I always thought VR could be a great way to test drive a new gender/body. The surgery is serious business especially if you are young. It would be cool if there a walking simulator type thing that let you customize your gender and looks and walk around. Might help some people decide if it’s for them without having to do something that’s expensive and irreversible.
  - mffnbs 7y ago
    It was mainly a joke, but yeah I thought about the implications of what I was saying. I think, at least for me, the lack of permanence creates a more lighthearted situation that is easier to joke about. It's disorienting seeing yourself as an entirely different gender but it's more distressing not being able to control it or society's perception of it. Honestly, I never thought about using VR for this purpose before. I'm slightly excited to give it a try and see how my brain enjoys/dislikes the effect.
- chroma 7y ago
  I've played a few VR games that allow you to customize your avatar. I've tried male bodies, female bodies, robot bodies, ridiculous carton bodies... everything. At no point did I feel that anything was wrong or out of place. This is true for everyone who I've loaned my headset to. I think trans people are overgeneralizing from their own psyches. They feel like they are in the wrong body, and they assume that everyone else would feel the same if they were body-swapped into the opposite sex. But as far as I can tell, only a tiny fraction of people experience this. Gender dysphoria seems to be about as common as aphantasia or synesthesia. Personally, I don't think of my body as part of my identity. It's a machine that I ride around in. If I woke up in the body of a woman, I'd be really annoyed but I doubt I'd go through years of hormones and surgery to be perceived as a man again. It would be easier to learn how to use the new body than to try to make it closer to what I'm used to.

himinlomax 7y ago

> I think a fascinating part of Alyx is Valve choosing a female protagonist. There has been other games with a female protagonist, but the backlash was so bad against them that they were completely forgotten. I know it's obscure, but you can look it up, there's those two games called "Portal" and "Portal 2", and the two main characters are female. You've probably never heard of them because of all the misogyny. ... or something.

reificator 7y ago
To be honest I'm surprised that there wasn't any backlash. I find the weight and attractiveness jokes that GLaDOS throws at the player absolutely hilarious. But that can be a touchy subject, especially with Chell as the protagonist instead of, say, Gordon Freeman.
- himinlomax 7y ago
  There was no backlash because nobody whatsoever has a problem with a female protagonist. What some people have a problem is recasting an iconic character as a woman for the sake of "diversity," or any form of forced diversity for that matter.
  - reificator 7y ago
    I ask this earnestly: Did you read past the first sentence in my previous post? I wasn't suggesting that there would be backlash with a female protagonist. I was suggesting there could have been backlash to the way that protagonist was treated, due to her gender.
    - himinlomax 7y ago
      Sorry, I didn't understand because what you meant seems so strange. I can't believe anyone without a major psychotic breakdown would take personally what an obvious recording says about a virtual character you're just happening to be controlling.

mlindner 7y ago

Female protagonists in game is the new fad. It has nothing to do with the gender ratio of the players playing the game.

outworlder 7y ago
As sibling posts are pointing out, that's not new for Valve at all. They have been doing this for decades at this point.
puranjay 7y ago
I doubt Valve decided on the protagonist recently. This has to have been years in the making
KON_Air 7y ago
I can see that happening but consider this; the closest "character" they have to "player character" with a voice is Alyx.
SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
Lara Croft would like a word. Or Samus, if you want to go back even further.

hirundo 7y ago

> I think a fascinating part of Alyx is Valve choosing a female protagonist. It's in a lot of good company in that respect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Video_games_featuring_female_protagonists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Video_games_featuring... I doubt that VR is more than incremental in terms of creating an illusion of gender.

theandrewbailey 7y ago

It's a pattern with Valve. Remember Chell? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chell_(Portal) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chell_(Portal)

murph-almighty 7y ago
True, but Chell had no speaking lines (not hating on Valve, Gordon Freeman/basically all their 1st person protagonists are mute). We've seen Alyx as a developed character who's gone through some trauma (not spoiling here) so I'd argue this is a bit more exciting.

erk__ 7y ago

Another interesting thing is that this is going to be the first valve game where the protagonist actually talks.

faissaloo 7y ago

>stereotype threatening situations have been linked to the inability to recruit and retain women into these fields Come on, we know the inability to recruit and retain women in these fields is down to a culture that simply does not value the contributions of women in STEM as highly as their contributions in other 'industries'.

thanatos_dem 7y ago

It’s not new tho, Chelle in portal was a female protagonist, and that game has been VR’d to hell and back. I think Alyx makes sense as a protagonist given how prominent of a character she was in HL2, regardless of gender.

jorams 7y ago
> that game has been VR’d to hell and back. What do you mean by this? As far as I can see there is no actual VR port of Portal. You can play it through something like VorpX, which gets you 3D display through a headset, but that can hardly be called "VR'd to hell and back".
- thanatos_dem 7y ago
  Yeah, maybe “to hell and back” was strong, but it was used as the setting for “The Lab”, one of Valve’s first VR demos, and there’s a mod called “Portal Stories VR” which is one of the most developed and popular VR mods currently.

sparky_z 7y ago

Eh, I don't think it's as big of a deal as you're suggesting. Alyx is pretty much the only choice if they wanted to use a pre-existing character as an action protagonist set between HL1 & 2. And from the trailer, it looks like the only "gendered" thing about the player's avatar is the voiceover. That's not a "body swap illusion" like the paper is talking about. In principal, I don't see it having any more deep psychological effect than, say, Perfect Dark. (1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_Dark https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_Dark

danharaj 7y ago
Adrian Shephard's still lying around tho :^)
- z3phyr 7y ago
  I guess gearbox owns the character??
reificator 7y ago
> Alyx is pretty much the only choice if they wanted to use a pre-existing character as an action protagonist set between HL1 & 2. Before I say this, note I'm looking forward to playing as Alyx, and don't expect gender to make much of a difference in a game/story like this. But as far as not having options, I disagree. Barney was already a playable character in Blue Shift, he's shown to be relevant to the plot in HL2. Not only that but he's undercover at least some of the time, opening up gameplay avenues that Alyx wouldn't have available. Not that I'm suggesting that HL in VR needs a Papers Please style minigame or anything...

jczhang 7y ago

Not sure i understand the TLDR of the IEE study.. what does stereotype lift and induced stereotype threat even mean?

CompanionCuuube 7y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype_threat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype_threat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype_threat#Stereotype_lift_and_stereotype_boost https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype_threat#Stereotype_l...

kiddico 7y ago

How is this different than a gender swap in a non-vr game? I'll have to join vr chat as a girl tonight and see how things go. That said I normally play star citizen w/ a female avatar, and other than thinking "the person I'm talking to might think I'm a girl" my mindset doesn't change much...

Shivetya 7y ago
I think the disappointing part is there is so little choice in the avatar you can play in these games. I would like something with how bioware approached SWTOR, the dialog changes, voice actor swap included, to match the gender of the character and from there it is just as easy to adapt skin colors and features. Even better, her name is about as neutral as you can ask for!
haolez 7y ago
Maybe looking down and seeing big breasts (assuming that's the case with Alyx) triggers something uncomfortable in a male's brain. Maybe we can feel like what it is to be trans and feel that your body "isn't right" for you.
- loeg 7y ago
  > (assuming that's the case with Alyx) Uhh. Nope: https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/half-life/images/9/9f/D1_eli_010011.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090528010536&path-prefix=en https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/half-life/images/9/9f/D1... https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/65727186/0000000311.0.jpg https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/65727186/... The character isn't 90s Lara Croft.
  - haolez 7y ago
    Thanks. The art looks awesome, btw
    - hombre_fatal 7y ago
      They're from Half-Life 2 btw.

Impossible 7y ago

It's an interesting choice by Valve. They're basically making a bunch of white men play as a black woman. In practice I agree with the other response that it's not a big deal. Most VR experiences either race or gender swap me (I'm a black male) or turn me into an abstract form or a robot. It can be disorienting at first but you get used to it.

pteraspidomorph 7y ago

From what I've seen in VR platforms that support custom avatars (even in modded Beat Saber), the userbase may be male but most of them want to be in female bodies...

koonsolo 7y ago

From a business perspective it makes total sense. I saw a GDC talk where they laid out the statistics: - Most men don't mind playing a female character (think Lara Croft). - Most women prefer to play a female character. So the real question is why there aren't more game studios using female protagonists.

viklove 7y ago
There are plenty of games with female protagonists though, Horizon: Zero Dawn, Mirror's Edge, Portal, Last of Us 2 (just to name a few).