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The worst thing about the Phoebus Cartel is that for something that lasted just a few years (and didn't really work), it is constantly cited as the quintessenti

The worst thing about the Phoebus Cartel is that for something that lasted just a few years (and didn't really work), it is constantly cited as the quintessential example of 'planned obsolescence' and therefore one of the evils of capitalism. 'Planned obsolescence' itself, is an overstated and overrated concept that is frequently conflated with common practices like making a product cheaper through the use of lower-quality materials.

fsh 7y ago
"Planned obsolescence" and "value engineering" have almost the same effect for the customers though. Products are designed to just barely survive the EU's two year mandatory warranty period.
- andrepd 7y ago
  Maybe it's time to up that warranty period? Perhaps even different values for different kinds of products (3 years for a phone, 8 years for a washing machine, etc.).
- stevehawk 7y ago
  They may have similar effects, but their intent is very different, which means who gets blamed is very different. "Planned obsolescence" means evil, greedy corporations. "Value engineering" means consumers want "cheaper" not "better", which means we are the evil, greedy ones. But I'm not greedy, so it must be the corporations!
  - fsh 7y ago
    Intent is very hard to prove. In my last Sony laptop the keycaps were held in by hooks formed from a thin metal sheet. After a while (2.5 years in my case) the hooks start to break and the keys fell off. The keyboard was riveted and glued into the case which made it impossible to fix it. Was this the cheapest way for Sony to attach the keys to the laptop? Maybe. Did it get me to replace my otherwise perfectly fine laptop after 2.5 years? Certainly.
- macspoofing 7y ago
  >"Planned obsolescence" and "value engineering" have almost the same effect for the customers though. No it doesn't. We live in a world where if you want a quality drill, you can spend a few hundred bucks and get a quality drill that will last you a long time. You can also spend $20 for a cheap Black&Decker that will be good enough to do very minor things around the house. You're suggesting that we implement laws to make the latter illegal. Are you sure you want that? What if you don't want to pay for a quality drill, because the chepo-plastic one is more than enough for what you need, and you'd rather spend the money you save on something you value more than a drill.
gsich 7y ago
Android updates are another good example.
- macspoofing 7y ago
  But they aren't. There are commercial reasons why updates are limited to two years. It's not great, but it's not the same.
  - gsich 7y ago
    Why not? "commercial reasons" for not supporting a device with updates is planned obsolescence. You (as a device manufacturer) plan to release a new model, so you try to make the old one obsolete. Now given, the device might not stop working immediateley, or maybe never. The issue is that without updates your device might join a botnet. There are ways around it. After you supported your device for the mini time that is 2 years (even if). Release ALL your sourcecode for that device.

fsh 7y ago

"Planned obsolescence" and "value engineering" have almost the same effect for the customers though. Products are designed to just barely survive the EU's two year mandatory warranty period.

andrepd 7y ago
Maybe it's time to up that warranty period? Perhaps even different values for different kinds of products (3 years for a phone, 8 years for a washing machine, etc.).
stevehawk 7y ago
They may have similar effects, but their intent is very different, which means who gets blamed is very different. "Planned obsolescence" means evil, greedy corporations. "Value engineering" means consumers want "cheaper" not "better", which means we are the evil, greedy ones. But I'm not greedy, so it must be the corporations!
- fsh 7y ago
  Intent is very hard to prove. In my last Sony laptop the keycaps were held in by hooks formed from a thin metal sheet. After a while (2.5 years in my case) the hooks start to break and the keys fell off. The keyboard was riveted and glued into the case which made it impossible to fix it. Was this the cheapest way for Sony to attach the keys to the laptop? Maybe. Did it get me to replace my otherwise perfectly fine laptop after 2.5 years? Certainly.
macspoofing 7y ago
>"Planned obsolescence" and "value engineering" have almost the same effect for the customers though. No it doesn't. We live in a world where if you want a quality drill, you can spend a few hundred bucks and get a quality drill that will last you a long time. You can also spend $20 for a cheap Black&Decker that will be good enough to do very minor things around the house. You're suggesting that we implement laws to make the latter illegal. Are you sure you want that? What if you don't want to pay for a quality drill, because the chepo-plastic one is more than enough for what you need, and you'd rather spend the money you save on something you value more than a drill.

gsich 7y ago

Android updates are another good example.

macspoofing 7y ago
But they aren't. There are commercial reasons why updates are limited to two years. It's not great, but it's not the same.
- gsich 7y ago
  Why not? "commercial reasons" for not supporting a device with updates is planned obsolescence. You (as a device manufacturer) plan to release a new model, so you try to make the old one obsolete. Now given, the device might not stop working immediateley, or maybe never. The issue is that without updates your device might join a botnet. There are ways around it. After you supported your device for the mini time that is 2 years (even if). Release ALL your sourcecode for that device.