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> the reality is that the world has a large problem with disinformation and false claims right now that's causing real negative consequences for real people. C

> the reality is that the world has a large problem with disinformation and false claims right now that's causing real negative consequences for real people. Can you expand on what you mean by this? It seems we have more transparency than ever before into how governments are operating (mostly corruption) and that's a good thing. What negative consequences do you see coming from false claims? I suspect the answer to this question might highlight why people are nervous about Google (or any company) being the arbiter of truth.

notatoad 7y ago
false claims are not transparency. false claims are the opposite of transparency. When you allow lies to spread unchecked, real transparency is meaningless because the true information exposed by the transparency can be drowned out by the false information. Honestly, i don't even know where to begin with being asked to explain why lies are bad
- malvosenior 7y ago
  I'm asking what false claims you think are "controlling our political process", and causing a "large problem" in the world? It seems to me that good old fashioned state/media propaganda are a much larger problem than any false claims circulating on the internet.
  - harumph 7y ago
    From your comments, it seems your intention is to muddy the waters to the point where actual steps toward solutions are deemed unworkable. YOU, sir, are propagating the problem you purport to be asking questions about. Please stop.
- stickfigure 7y ago
  The problem is that most political speech is rarely simple facts with true/false values. Political speech is complicated and full of nuance and ambiguities. Just look at the example that AOC grilled Zuckerberg over: "Republicans support the Green New Deal". Which Republicans? Which version of the Green New Deal? Which parts of it? Ultimately you're just handing control over speech to the arbiters of "true" and "false", who are themselves political creatures. Sometimes we just have to accept some bad things in our society, because the consequence of eliminating them is worse. See also: The War On Drugs.
ben_w 7y ago
Exactly one of the following two claims is a lie: 1) “Vaccines are safe” 2) “Vaccines cause, rather than prevent, illnesses”. If 1 is true, the antivaxx movement is risking tens of millions of lives and >>billions of disability adjusted years of life expectancy. If 2 is true, vaccines are a multibillion dollar fraud.
- malvosenior 7y ago
  The claim was that false statements are controlling our political process. The antivaxx movement has exactly zero impact on politics.
  - alwayseasy 7y ago
    The antivaxx movement recently had an impact on CDC policy, Department of Education involvement at Federal and State levels on how to handle unvaccinated kids, laws passed by State Governors, and two Senate bills. I'm not sure how you're able to minimize their impact on politics. There are clear links between false statements, the antivaxx movement and the resurgence of deadly medical conditions.
  - stjohnswarts 7y ago
    Antivax has plenty influence on politics. They've been able to push states to allow more and more capability to dodge vaccines when they should be mandatory unless there is a medically compelling reason not to.
- Consultant32452 7y ago
  This is a great example because (1) is not universally true and (2) is a caricature of what anti-vaxxers claim. Anti-vaxxers are probably incorrect, but you are also the victim of a misinformation campaign. Limiting them doesn't help you get better information.
  - stjohnswarts 7y ago
    1 is so close to true that it's a basically harmless statement. 2 is flat out true, anti-vaxxers have no scientific basis for their claims and they are essentially murdering people including small kids. so yeah 2 is just as ridiculous as was states.
stjohnswarts 7y ago
Because people tend to be cattle and eliminating the echo chamber of targeted political advertising is a good thing. If you want your message out there let everyone see it and call you out for your lies, whatever your party or end game. I prefer twitter's method of just cutting it out, but Goog hit the middle ground I suppose and only let advertisers aim more generic target audience like age and sex.

notatoad 7y ago

false claims are not transparency. false claims are the opposite of transparency. When you allow lies to spread unchecked, real transparency is meaningless because the true information exposed by the transparency can be drowned out by the false information. Honestly, i don't even know where to begin with being asked to explain why lies are bad

malvosenior 7y ago
I'm asking what false claims you think are "controlling our political process", and causing a "large problem" in the world? It seems to me that good old fashioned state/media propaganda are a much larger problem than any false claims circulating on the internet.
- harumph 7y ago
  From your comments, it seems your intention is to muddy the waters to the point where actual steps toward solutions are deemed unworkable. YOU, sir, are propagating the problem you purport to be asking questions about. Please stop.
stickfigure 7y ago
The problem is that most political speech is rarely simple facts with true/false values. Political speech is complicated and full of nuance and ambiguities. Just look at the example that AOC grilled Zuckerberg over: "Republicans support the Green New Deal". Which Republicans? Which version of the Green New Deal? Which parts of it? Ultimately you're just handing control over speech to the arbiters of "true" and "false", who are themselves political creatures. Sometimes we just have to accept some bad things in our society, because the consequence of eliminating them is worse. See also: The War On Drugs.

ben_w 7y ago

Exactly one of the following two claims is a lie: 1) “Vaccines are safe” 2) “Vaccines cause, rather than prevent, illnesses”. If 1 is true, the antivaxx movement is risking tens of millions of lives and >>billions of disability adjusted years of life expectancy. If 2 is true, vaccines are a multibillion dollar fraud.

malvosenior 7y ago
The claim was that false statements are controlling our political process. The antivaxx movement has exactly zero impact on politics.
- alwayseasy 7y ago
  The antivaxx movement recently had an impact on CDC policy, Department of Education involvement at Federal and State levels on how to handle unvaccinated kids, laws passed by State Governors, and two Senate bills. I'm not sure how you're able to minimize their impact on politics. There are clear links between false statements, the antivaxx movement and the resurgence of deadly medical conditions.
- stjohnswarts 7y ago
  Antivax has plenty influence on politics. They've been able to push states to allow more and more capability to dodge vaccines when they should be mandatory unless there is a medically compelling reason not to.
Consultant32452 7y ago
This is a great example because (1) is not universally true and (2) is a caricature of what anti-vaxxers claim. Anti-vaxxers are probably incorrect, but you are also the victim of a misinformation campaign. Limiting them doesn't help you get better information.
- stjohnswarts 7y ago
  1 is so close to true that it's a basically harmless statement. 2 is flat out true, anti-vaxxers have no scientific basis for their claims and they are essentially murdering people including small kids. so yeah 2 is just as ridiculous as was states.

stjohnswarts 7y ago

Because people tend to be cattle and eliminating the echo chamber of targeted political advertising is a good thing. If you want your message out there let everyone see it and call you out for your lies, whatever your party or end game. I prefer twitter's method of just cutting it out, but Goog hit the middle ground I suppose and only let advertisers aim more generic target audience like age and sex.