6 ms·

Because Microsoft makes some of the best tools for developers. Because sql server is a fantastic product that has basically no real equivalent on the market.

Because Microsoft makes some of the best tools for developers. Because sql server is a fantastic product that has basically no real equivalent on the market. And funnily enough, I always feel that .Net core primary platform was Linux and not windows. Same for visual studio code, and I wouldn't be surprised if in a few years, new sql server features won't appear first on the Linux version. And actually it's somewhat the case with sql server big data cluster.

Quarrelsome 7y ago
isn't Postgres an equivalent?
- Nullabillity 7y ago
  Not really, Postgres actually works.
  - tracker1 7y ago
    Except for in-the-box replication and failover options.
    - Nullabillity 7y ago
      MSSQL's replication is a minefield of ways to screw it up completely.
      - tracker1 7y ago
        Not that I disagree... but by comparison, PosgreSQL replication would be a minefield of nuclear bombs without a map.
        Nullabillity 7y ago
        Not using it for anything super critical yet, but Patroni is pretty much plug-and-play, and becomes transparent to the client once set up. No need to worry about whether your client supports MultiSubnetFailover, or whether you remembered to copy your users manually.
    - antod 7y ago
      "in-the-box" unless you're using the "cheaper" licence options. (possibly out of date opinion)
excursionist 7y ago
> Because Microsoft makes some of the best tools for developers. What are some of these tools besides VSCode, and what makes them 'the best'? > Because sql server is a fantastic product that has basically no real equivalent on the market. What makes SQL Server so much better than, say, PostgreSQL or MariaDB? > And funnily enough, I always feel that .Net core primary platform was Linux and not windows. Why?
- ripley12 7y ago
  > What makes SQL Server so much better than, say, PostgreSQL or MariaDB? Tooling and speed. I can vouch for the quality of SQL Server's tooling – SSMS is very nicely integrated with SQL Server. If you watch the CMU DB Group's lectures on YouTube, they mention that the commercial RDBMSs have put a lot more time+research into query optimization than the open source ones (and apparently SQL Server has the best optimizer).
  - excursionist 7y ago
    > Tooling and speed. That's too vague to be of any use. What tooling? What benchmarks? > I can vouch for the quality of SQL Server's tooling – SSMS is very nicely integrated with SQL Server. The fact that you like SSMS doesn't really say anything about tooling for PostgreSQL. I find the quality of PostgreSQL tooling great. There is certainly plenty of reason to believe PostgreSQL is superior to MS SQL [1]. I don't agree with everything in the referenced article, but your claim of MS SQL being far superior is, so far, completely unsubstantiated. [1] https://www.pg-versus-ms.com/ https://www.pg-versus-ms.com/
    - ripley12 7y ago
      You’re a little combative, huh? As I’m sure you’re aware, publishing benchmarks of commercial RDBMSs is usually prohibited - I’m just passing on what I’ve heard from an expert about query optimizers.
      - excursionist 7y ago
Nullabillity 7y ago
> Because Microsoft makes some of the best tools for developers. NuGet constantly fails silently when trying to restore packages. Visual Studio is an editor built primarily around a folder tree, with no competent way to navigate that tree without constantly losing your place. It's also the only IDE that I have used where I just had to give up trying to find the application logs. > Because sql server is a fantastic product that has basically no real equivalent on the market. MSSQL's utter incompetence makes MySQL's `utf8` troubles look like small potatoes. For example: the `uniqueidentifier` type doesn't have a defined endianness, meaning that there is no guarantee that two languages reading the same cell will produce the same UUID string. SSMS is an unusable hog. There is just no nice way to put it. SQLCMD must have been designed by people who have never actually used a CLI.
- ripley12 7y ago
  > SSMS is an unusable hog. ...huh? SSMS (plus the free Red Gate SQL Search addin) is hands-down the best DB tooling I've ever used. If you're aware of similarly full-featured equivalents for Postgres (or any other RDBMS), I'd love to hear about them.
  - keithnz 7y ago
    have you tried DataGrip? I went from SSMS to DataGrip for most of my database work. SSMS is still better for management of the SQL Server instance, but for database work, DataGrip is a lot nicer than SSMS (and SSMS is a lot nicer than a LOT of other tools for other RDBMSs)
    - ripley12 7y ago
      Interesting, thanks! I have tried DataGrip briefly with Postgres – my first impression was that it's a competent tool for things that are generic across all RDBMSs, but limited in RDBMS-specific management/administration functionality. Not far off from what you said :) If you have time, what about DataGrip do you find to be "a lot nicer than SSMS"? Which features should I (a DataGrip noob) try using?

Quarrelsome 7y ago

isn't Postgres an equivalent?

Nullabillity 7y ago
Not really, Postgres actually works.
- tracker1 7y ago
  Except for in-the-box replication and failover options.
  - Nullabillity 7y ago
    MSSQL's replication is a minefield of ways to screw it up completely.
    - tracker1 7y ago
      Not that I disagree... but by comparison, PosgreSQL replication would be a minefield of nuclear bombs without a map.
      - Nullabillity 7y ago
        Not using it for anything super critical yet, but Patroni is pretty much plug-and-play, and becomes transparent to the client once set up. No need to worry about whether your client supports MultiSubnetFailover, or whether you remembered to copy your users manually.
  - antod 7y ago
    "in-the-box" unless you're using the "cheaper" licence options. (possibly out of date opinion)

excursionist 7y ago

> Because Microsoft makes some of the best tools for developers. What are some of these tools besides VSCode, and what makes them 'the best'? > Because sql server is a fantastic product that has basically no real equivalent on the market. What makes SQL Server so much better than, say, PostgreSQL or MariaDB? > And funnily enough, I always feel that .Net core primary platform was Linux and not windows. Why?

ripley12 7y ago
> What makes SQL Server so much better than, say, PostgreSQL or MariaDB? Tooling and speed. I can vouch for the quality of SQL Server's tooling – SSMS is very nicely integrated with SQL Server. If you watch the CMU DB Group's lectures on YouTube, they mention that the commercial RDBMSs have put a lot more time+research into query optimization than the open source ones (and apparently SQL Server has the best optimizer).
- excursionist 7y ago
  > Tooling and speed. That's too vague to be of any use. What tooling? What benchmarks? > I can vouch for the quality of SQL Server's tooling – SSMS is very nicely integrated with SQL Server. The fact that you like SSMS doesn't really say anything about tooling for PostgreSQL. I find the quality of PostgreSQL tooling great. There is certainly plenty of reason to believe PostgreSQL is superior to MS SQL [1]. I don't agree with everything in the referenced article, but your claim of MS SQL being far superior is, so far, completely unsubstantiated. [1] https://www.pg-versus-ms.com/ https://www.pg-versus-ms.com/
  - ripley12 7y ago
    You’re a little combative, huh? As I’m sure you’re aware, publishing benchmarks of commercial RDBMSs is usually prohibited - I’m just passing on what I’ve heard from an expert about query optimizers.
    - excursionist 7y ago

Nullabillity 7y ago

> Because Microsoft makes some of the best tools for developers. NuGet constantly fails silently when trying to restore packages. Visual Studio is an editor built primarily around a folder tree, with no competent way to navigate that tree without constantly losing your place. It's also the only IDE that I have used where I just had to give up trying to find the application logs. > Because sql server is a fantastic product that has basically no real equivalent on the market. MSSQL's utter incompetence makes MySQL's `utf8` troubles look like small potatoes. For example: the `uniqueidentifier` type doesn't have a defined endianness, meaning that there is no guarantee that two languages reading the same cell will produce the same UUID string. SSMS is an unusable hog. There is just no nice way to put it. SQLCMD must have been designed by people who have never actually used a CLI.

ripley12 7y ago
> SSMS is an unusable hog. ...huh? SSMS (plus the free Red Gate SQL Search addin) is hands-down the best DB tooling I've ever used. If you're aware of similarly full-featured equivalents for Postgres (or any other RDBMS), I'd love to hear about them.
- keithnz 7y ago
  have you tried DataGrip? I went from SSMS to DataGrip for most of my database work. SSMS is still better for management of the SQL Server instance, but for database work, DataGrip is a lot nicer than SSMS (and SSMS is a lot nicer than a LOT of other tools for other RDBMSs)
  - ripley12 7y ago
    Interesting, thanks! I have tried DataGrip briefly with Postgres – my first impression was that it's a competent tool for things that are generic across all RDBMSs, but limited in RDBMS-specific management/administration functionality. Not far off from what you said :) If you have time, what about DataGrip do you find to be "a lot nicer than SSMS"? Which features should I (a DataGrip noob) try using?