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Why would any Linux shop use SQL Server anyways? Why would they use .NET Core? The only people I know pushing .NET Core are .NET people, not Linux people. My

Why would any Linux shop use SQL Server anyways? Why would they use .NET Core? The only people I know pushing .NET Core are .NET people, not Linux people. My general rule is to never use a technology where your primary platform is a second class citizen. It just makes things a pain: not only could support be dropped in the future because there's no profit in it, its also harder to find answers to problems on the internet.

scarface74 7y ago
How is Linux a second class citizen for .Net Core? Have you ever had a problem with .Net Core on Linux that you couldn't find an answer to?
- tracker1 7y ago
  I've actually had more issues with it in Windows than on Linux/Mac. Though I will say VS proper is much nicer than VS Code for C# development. It will improve. I'd still prefer to use mostly node, which gets its' own ire from the developer community.
- Nullabillity 7y ago
  - dotnet-cli will try to cache a bunch of junk into its install folder, rather than respecting $XDG_CACHE_HOME, or even just using a plain old dotfile. These days it just generates an annoying warning on each run, but it used to be a hard error. - OmniSharp just plain doesn't work on NixOS, because it hardcodes a bunch of Ubuntu paths. - It seems to support automatically switching between multiple SDK versions, but I've never been able to get that to work.
lghh 7y ago
I'm a Linux person who likes .NET Core. I like C# quite a bit, and I don't think Linux is a 2nd class citizen for .NET Core.
- merb 7y ago
  especially since kestrel is faster on linux than on windows. (well it's slower than iis inProcess, but still)
- ripley12 7y ago
  It is still a 2nd class citizen, IMO – but I think that's improving rapidly. Some examples: -IDE support from MS is markedly better on Windows (real Visual Studio) and Mac (VS for Mac). VS Code+Omnisharp is still pretty rough around the edges for C#. -Many of the older .NET class libraries were just not designed with *nix in mind. System.IO still doesn't support symlinks https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/26310 https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/26310
  - zamalek 7y ago
    > Many of the older .NET class libraries were just not designed with *nix in mind. System.IO still doesn't support symlinks Windows supports symlinks, so that problem is not unique to netcore on nix. Many of the newer APIs are designed with explicit support for nix.
    - ripley12 7y ago
      Yup, but I think the problem stems from symlinks being relatively uncommon in NTFS compared to nix filesystems - it just wasn't a priority for the original .NET designers who were mostly targeting Windows. https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2016/12/02/symlinks-windows-10/ https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2016/12/02/symlin...
- garganzol 7y ago
  Sometimes I think that Linux is the 1st class citizen for .NET Core when it comes to a server stack. .NET Core is seriously awesome since version 2.0 on all platforms.
dpark 7y ago
> The only people I know pushing .NET Core are .NET people Isn’t someone pushing .Net by definition a .Net person?
eternalny1 7y ago
Our Angular web app runs .Net Core on Linux. .Net Core is fantastic, C# is a great language, I don't see any downsides with our stack.
- tracker1 7y ago
  Biggest down side for me, is .Net Core 3 had some dramatic breaks, it's better than 2 and before, but still been burdensome. There's two decades of answers and examples out there, many of which don't work. Not to mention many third party libraries that do stuff that's now in the box. Biggest gripe to me, is lack of in the box support for PEM files in the crypto library. There are others, Core 3 breaks DI for logging in the Startup is another big one. In the end, it's decent... I'd still largely rather use Node, or if I need more performance Rust of even Go. I will say I don't hate it, it's just frustrating finding examples and answers.
  - ClumsyPilot 7y ago
    Every language and framework has it warts, and the ones in JS/Node could fill a library. You pick your poison.
    - tracker1 7y ago
      Not disagreeing on JS/Node... I will say I get so much better velocity in terms of practical work done with my time. But I've also seen people do some goofy things in JS, but will counter that most people are snooty about it and don't bother actually learning the language, reminds me a lot of VB a couple decades ago (the culture against it).
Foobar8568 7y ago
Because Microsoft makes some of the best tools for developers. Because sql server is a fantastic product that has basically no real equivalent on the market. And funnily enough, I always feel that .Net core primary platform was Linux and not windows. Same for visual studio code, and I wouldn't be surprised if in a few years, new sql server features won't appear first on the Linux version. And actually it's somewhat the case with sql server big data cluster.
- Quarrelsome 7y ago
  isn't Postgres an equivalent?
  - Nullabillity 7y ago
    Not really, Postgres actually works.
    - tracker1 7y ago
      Except for in-the-box replication and failover options.
      - Nullabillity 7y ago
        MSSQL's replication is a minefield of ways to screw it up completely.
        tracker1 7y ago
        Not that I disagree... but by comparison, PosgreSQL replication would be a minefield of nuclear bombs without a map.
        Nullabillity 7y ago
        Not using it for anything super critical yet, but Patroni is pretty much plug-and-play, and becomes transparent to the client once set up. No need to worry about whether your client supports MultiSubnetFailover, or whether you remembered to copy your users manually.
autechr3 7y ago
We are about to launch a new .NET core service and I've been working with .NET core for about 2 years now. Not only is Linux not a second class citizen (it is the easiest platform to run on and scale), but dropping support would make no sense from a business or technical standpoint. Microsoft is making a ton of money by supporting cross platform. We aren't using SQL Server, but I've used most of the big RDBMS and SQL Server is the best. It just tends to be more expensive. So far it has been anything but a "pain".
wvenable 7y ago
> The only people I know pushing .NET Core are .NET people, not Linux people. Miguel de Icaza would probably have an issue with that statement.

scarface74 7y ago

How is Linux a second class citizen for .Net Core? Have you ever had a problem with .Net Core on Linux that you couldn't find an answer to?

tracker1 7y ago
I've actually had more issues with it in Windows than on Linux/Mac. Though I will say VS proper is much nicer than VS Code for C# development. It will improve. I'd still prefer to use mostly node, which gets its' own ire from the developer community.
Nullabillity 7y ago
- dotnet-cli will try to cache a bunch of junk into its install folder, rather than respecting $XDG_CACHE_HOME, or even just using a plain old dotfile. These days it just generates an annoying warning on each run, but it used to be a hard error. - OmniSharp just plain doesn't work on NixOS, because it hardcodes a bunch of Ubuntu paths. - It seems to support automatically switching between multiple SDK versions, but I've never been able to get that to work.

lghh 7y ago

I'm a Linux person who likes .NET Core. I like C# quite a bit, and I don't think Linux is a 2nd class citizen for .NET Core.

merb 7y ago
especially since kestrel is faster on linux than on windows. (well it's slower than iis inProcess, but still)
ripley12 7y ago
It is still a 2nd class citizen, IMO – but I think that's improving rapidly. Some examples: -IDE support from MS is markedly better on Windows (real Visual Studio) and Mac (VS for Mac). VS Code+Omnisharp is still pretty rough around the edges for C#. -Many of the older .NET class libraries were just not designed with *nix in mind. System.IO still doesn't support symlinks https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/26310 https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/26310
- zamalek 7y ago
  > Many of the older .NET class libraries were just not designed with *nix in mind. System.IO still doesn't support symlinks Windows supports symlinks, so that problem is not unique to netcore on nix. Many of the newer APIs are designed with explicit support for nix.
  - ripley12 7y ago
    Yup, but I think the problem stems from symlinks being relatively uncommon in NTFS compared to nix filesystems - it just wasn't a priority for the original .NET designers who were mostly targeting Windows. https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2016/12/02/symlinks-windows-10/ https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2016/12/02/symlin...
garganzol 7y ago
Sometimes I think that Linux is the 1st class citizen for .NET Core when it comes to a server stack. .NET Core is seriously awesome since version 2.0 on all platforms.

dpark 7y ago

> The only people I know pushing .NET Core are .NET people Isn’t someone pushing .Net by definition a .Net person?

eternalny1 7y ago

Our Angular web app runs .Net Core on Linux. .Net Core is fantastic, C# is a great language, I don't see any downsides with our stack.

tracker1 7y ago
Biggest down side for me, is .Net Core 3 had some dramatic breaks, it's better than 2 and before, but still been burdensome. There's two decades of answers and examples out there, many of which don't work. Not to mention many third party libraries that do stuff that's now in the box. Biggest gripe to me, is lack of in the box support for PEM files in the crypto library. There are others, Core 3 breaks DI for logging in the Startup is another big one. In the end, it's decent... I'd still largely rather use Node, or if I need more performance Rust of even Go. I will say I don't hate it, it's just frustrating finding examples and answers.
- ClumsyPilot 7y ago
  Every language and framework has it warts, and the ones in JS/Node could fill a library. You pick your poison.
  - tracker1 7y ago
    Not disagreeing on JS/Node... I will say I get so much better velocity in terms of practical work done with my time. But I've also seen people do some goofy things in JS, but will counter that most people are snooty about it and don't bother actually learning the language, reminds me a lot of VB a couple decades ago (the culture against it).

Foobar8568 7y ago

Because Microsoft makes some of the best tools for developers. Because sql server is a fantastic product that has basically no real equivalent on the market. And funnily enough, I always feel that .Net core primary platform was Linux and not windows. Same for visual studio code, and I wouldn't be surprised if in a few years, new sql server features won't appear first on the Linux version. And actually it's somewhat the case with sql server big data cluster.

Quarrelsome 7y ago
isn't Postgres an equivalent?
- Nullabillity 7y ago
  Not really, Postgres actually works.
  - tracker1 7y ago
    Except for in-the-box replication and failover options.
    - Nullabillity 7y ago
      MSSQL's replication is a minefield of ways to screw it up completely.
      - tracker1 7y ago
        Not that I disagree... but by comparison, PosgreSQL replication would be a minefield of nuclear bombs without a map.
        Nullabillity 7y ago
        Not using it for anything super critical yet, but Patroni is pretty much plug-and-play, and becomes transparent to the client once set up. No need to worry about whether your client supports MultiSubnetFailover, or whether you remembered to copy your users manually.

autechr3 7y ago

We are about to launch a new .NET core service and I've been working with .NET core for about 2 years now. Not only is Linux not a second class citizen (it is the easiest platform to run on and scale), but dropping support would make no sense from a business or technical standpoint. Microsoft is making a ton of money by supporting cross platform. We aren't using SQL Server, but I've used most of the big RDBMS and SQL Server is the best. It just tends to be more expensive. So far it has been anything but a "pain".

wvenable 7y ago

> The only people I know pushing .NET Core are .NET people, not Linux people. Miguel de Icaza would probably have an issue with that statement.