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Is Norway evil? Finland? Brazil? South Korea? Taiwan? Germany?

by GHFigs 16y ago

Aqwis 16y ago
I am not going to directly defend the Norwegian draft, but the Norwegian military does not send drafted soldiers who do not volunteer to fight in Afghanistan (or other foreign wars). The main reason Norway still has the draft is to have a population that can defend itself (admittedly with questionable efficiacy) in case a foreign power attacked Norway (such as what happened in World War II), not to send drafted youth involuntarily to their deaths in foreign countries.
dantheman 16y ago
Is the country, or the people, evil, of course not -- but the action surely is. Involuntary servitude is wrong. If it's not, then where do you draw the line? Can the government draft people to work on farms, build infrastructure, etc? If not, then why is it ok to send them into battle?
- jberryman 16y ago
  The point is in those countries it is not involuntary servitude; it is part of the social contract, just like taxes are not "the stealing of personal property at the barrel of a gun" as I seem to hear said around here.
  - knieveltech 16y ago
    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&defl=en&q=define:slavery&sa=X&ei=emNGTc3zFMP-8Aaem7S2DQ&ved=0CBcQkAE http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&defl=en&q=define:... That seems to describe conscription to me. I'm not sure what "part of the social contract" means.
  - radu_floricica 16y ago
    I've recently got a feel for this whole "barrel of a gun" thing with taxes. This month marked the second year in a row when my increase in income is being offset by an increase in taxes (I'm not in US btw). I've never felt there's anything wrong with paying taxes: I was born in a state-funded society, and I enjoyed free education and health care. But now I do. I actually feel the hand going in my pocket and taking more then it's supposed to. And the complete lack of trust I have in the political class to responsibly use this money, hell, to just not plain steal half of it makes it all the worst. Sorry the rant. Point I was trying to make, the devil is in the specifics. Taxes are social contract, yes, but overtaxing and then wasting the money is still stealing. Same with draft - 3-6 months of learning military skills which might be useful in case of an invasion is reasonable social contract. Drafting in order to be part of an invading army is not.
juhygtfghj 16y ago
Germany has just abandoned compulsory military service - as a budget saving measure. Ironically the reason for the draft in Germany was the belief that if everybody was involved with the military then it couldn't be taken over by a single political fraction. So for exactly the same reason - if they and their sons had been dodging IEDs in middle eastern country of the month - they wouldn't be so quick to vote for any politician who wanted a war for oil

Is Norway evil? Finland? Brazil? South Korea? Taiwan? Germany?

by GHFigs 16y ago

Is Norway evil? Finland? Brazil? South Korea? Taiwan? Germany?

Aqwis 16y ago

I am not going to directly defend the Norwegian draft, but the Norwegian military does not send drafted soldiers who do not volunteer to fight in Afghanistan (or other foreign wars). The main reason Norway still has the draft is to have a population that can defend itself (admittedly with questionable efficiacy) in case a foreign power attacked Norway (such as what happened in World War II), not to send drafted youth involuntarily to their deaths in foreign countries.

dantheman 16y ago

Is the country, or the people, evil, of course not -- but the action surely is. Involuntary servitude is wrong. If it's not, then where do you draw the line? Can the government draft people to work on farms, build infrastructure, etc? If not, then why is it ok to send them into battle?

jberryman 16y ago
The point is in those countries it is not involuntary servitude; it is part of the social contract, just like taxes are not "the stealing of personal property at the barrel of a gun" as I seem to hear said around here.
- knieveltech 16y ago
  http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&defl=en&q=define:slavery&sa=X&ei=emNGTc3zFMP-8Aaem7S2DQ&ved=0CBcQkAE http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&defl=en&q=define:... That seems to describe conscription to me. I'm not sure what "part of the social contract" means.
- radu_floricica 16y ago
  I've recently got a feel for this whole "barrel of a gun" thing with taxes. This month marked the second year in a row when my increase in income is being offset by an increase in taxes (I'm not in US btw). I've never felt there's anything wrong with paying taxes: I was born in a state-funded society, and I enjoyed free education and health care. But now I do. I actually feel the hand going in my pocket and taking more then it's supposed to. And the complete lack of trust I have in the political class to responsibly use this money, hell, to just not plain steal half of it makes it all the worst. Sorry the rant. Point I was trying to make, the devil is in the specifics. Taxes are social contract, yes, but overtaxing and then wasting the money is still stealing. Same with draft - 3-6 months of learning military skills which might be useful in case of an invasion is reasonable social contract. Drafting in order to be part of an invading army is not.

juhygtfghj 16y ago

Germany has just abandoned compulsory military service - as a budget saving measure. Ironically the reason for the draft in Germany was the belief that if everybody was involved with the military then it couldn't be taken over by a single political fraction. So for exactly the same reason - if they and their sons had been dodging IEDs in middle eastern country of the month - they wouldn't be so quick to vote for any politician who wanted a war for oil