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> it’s absolutely astounding how apocalyptic things are looking there The breakdown of society? Unable to acquire basic goods? Roving gangs of marauders?

cmcd 7y ago
Yes, but those are unrelated to climate change.
shakna 7y ago
The worst bushfires in recorded history, earlier and longer bushfire seasons, ongoing problems to do with poor water management that are being exacerbated, ongoing drought problems that are being exacerbated, ongoing power problems that are being exacerbated, ongoing skin cancer problems that are being exacerbated. This is death by a thousand cuts. Civilisation doesn't end immediately once we hit our tipping point date - but damage to our environment becomes practically irreversible.
- simonsarris 7y ago
  Wow those Australian fires really do look bad: https://twitter.com/simonsarris/status/1197612762039554048 https://twitter.com/simonsarris/status/1197612762039554048 Oh wait they don't look apocalyptic at all. The Mordor in the closet is still China and India. Live data: https://www.windy.com/-CO-concentration-cosc?cosc,6.344,126.445,4 https://www.windy.com/-CO-concentration-cosc?cosc,6.344,126....
  - bamboozled 7y ago
    Yes but you see, there is a correlation between the two ?
  - shakna 7y ago
    The point is absolutely not that bushfires release greenhouse gas. The primary point of concern with a bushfire is that they kill people, destroy land and property, and are incredibly difficult to control. Having the worst bushfires in recorded history is more to do with their scale being exacerbated by climate change, rather than they themselves having a detrimental effect on the environment.
- 0xffff2 7y ago
  All of that is bad, but it hardly sounds apocalyptic. I don't doubt that we're going to get there, but until we see whole cities abandoned, people starving en mass, and similar events, calling things "apocalyptic" comes across as hyperbolic.
  - jbattle 7y ago
    Cape Town came damn close in 2018
    - SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
      Having spent enough time in ZA, you can find something considered near apocalypse every other Tuesday. Necklacing Namibians for example in the street has nothing to do with climate.
  - shakna 7y ago
    The damage will be irreversible by the time these events are seen. It gets called apocalyptic because we're heading to a future where they become inevitable, not that they exist today. You need to get out of the car before the car crashes into a giant ball of flame. But saying that it hasn't exploded yet isn't an argument that there won't be flames.
    - 0xffff2 7y ago
      The damage is irreversible now, as evidenced by the fact that we are doing virtually nothing at a global level to even slow down, much less reverse, the damage. That still doesn't make current events apocalyptic. Harbingers of the apocalypse maybe, but the apocalypse is the fireball. It's not apocalyptic until we crash.

cmcd 7y ago

Yes, but those are unrelated to climate change.

shakna 7y ago

The worst bushfires in recorded history, earlier and longer bushfire seasons, ongoing problems to do with poor water management that are being exacerbated, ongoing drought problems that are being exacerbated, ongoing power problems that are being exacerbated, ongoing skin cancer problems that are being exacerbated. This is death by a thousand cuts. Civilisation doesn't end immediately once we hit our tipping point date - but damage to our environment becomes practically irreversible.

simonsarris 7y ago
Wow those Australian fires really do look bad: https://twitter.com/simonsarris/status/1197612762039554048 https://twitter.com/simonsarris/status/1197612762039554048 Oh wait they don't look apocalyptic at all. The Mordor in the closet is still China and India. Live data: https://www.windy.com/-CO-concentration-cosc?cosc,6.344,126.445,4 https://www.windy.com/-CO-concentration-cosc?cosc,6.344,126....
- bamboozled 7y ago
  Yes but you see, there is a correlation between the two ?
- shakna 7y ago
  The point is absolutely not that bushfires release greenhouse gas. The primary point of concern with a bushfire is that they kill people, destroy land and property, and are incredibly difficult to control. Having the worst bushfires in recorded history is more to do with their scale being exacerbated by climate change, rather than they themselves having a detrimental effect on the environment.
0xffff2 7y ago
All of that is bad, but it hardly sounds apocalyptic. I don't doubt that we're going to get there, but until we see whole cities abandoned, people starving en mass, and similar events, calling things "apocalyptic" comes across as hyperbolic.
- jbattle 7y ago
  Cape Town came damn close in 2018
  - SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
    Having spent enough time in ZA, you can find something considered near apocalypse every other Tuesday. Necklacing Namibians for example in the street has nothing to do with climate.
- shakna 7y ago
  The damage will be irreversible by the time these events are seen. It gets called apocalyptic because we're heading to a future where they become inevitable, not that they exist today. You need to get out of the car before the car crashes into a giant ball of flame. But saying that it hasn't exploded yet isn't an argument that there won't be flames.
  - 0xffff2 7y ago
    The damage is irreversible now, as evidenced by the fact that we are doing virtually nothing at a global level to even slow down, much less reverse, the damage. That still doesn't make current events apocalyptic. Harbingers of the apocalypse maybe, but the apocalypse is the fireball. It's not apocalyptic until we crash.