4 ms·

> Amazon could implement a check box the user agrees to before submission. No need for a check box, fake reviews are already against their ToS and against the

> Amazon could implement a check box the user agrees to before submission. No need for a check box, fake reviews are already against their ToS and against the law. Amazon can take action anytime it wants.

patentatt 7y ago
How are fake reviews against the law? And how do we know that they’re fake? She has the product, and tells her opinion of it. How do we judge if her opinion is fake? I know full well the circumstantial evidence argument, but from a legal point of view, I think you’d need more.
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/ftcs-endorsement-guides-what-people-are-asking https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/ftc... > Suppose you meet someone who tells you about a great new product. She tells you it performs wonderfully and offers fantastic new features that nobody else has. Would that recommendation factor into your decision to buy the product? Probably. > Now suppose the person works for the company that sells the product – or has been paid by the company to tout the product. Would you want to know that when you’re evaluating the endorser’s glowing recommendation? You bet. That common-sense premise is at the heart of the Federal Trade Commission’s (FTC) Endorsement Guides. And yes, they can go after you for it: https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2019/05/ftc-approves-final-consent-order-against-urthbox-inc-its https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2019/05/ftc-a...
- nkrisc 7y ago
  The FTC thinks it's fraudulent[0]. She's paid to provide the review (always 5 stars, never anything explicitly negative), yet doesn't disclose the fact she was reimbursed for the purchase by the seller. The intent of the scheme is to deceive other shoppers, regardless of the specific arrangement between her and the sellers. [0]https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2019/02/ftc-brings-first-case-challenging-fake-paid-reviews-independent https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2019/02/ftc-b...
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
Jaruzel 7y ago
Ah, but by asking the reviewer every time to confirm they are leaving an honest review, squarely puts the reviewer in the wrong if they get caught. It also put front and centre what can happen if they break the ToS.
- zrobotics 7y ago
  Problem is this just puts another barrier against legitimate reviews. Amazon doesn't want to add friction to the review process, since that will discourage actual reviews and not bother the fake reviewers at all. I've only reviewed a few items on Amazon, mostly when an item stood out as really good or absolute crap. For instance, my last review was 1 star for an esp8266 that was so poorly faked they had mounted an op-amp instead of the microcontroller (I assume because it was the cheapest thing they could find in the package size). If there are barriers to leaving a review, actual customers will leave less reviews. I certainly don't want to have to tick multiple checkboxes in order to review an item, I will just not bother leaving a review.
  - arcticfox 7y ago
    > Amazon doesn't want to add friction to the review process, since that will discourage actual reviews and not bother the fake reviewers at all. Who cares about barriers to legitimate reviews? There are millions on Amazon, hundreds for any popular product. The problem is they're swamped out by the millions of fake/illegitimate ones.
- MichaelApproved 7y ago
  They already know this. Jessica and the rest understand it's immoral to do this. She even says so in the article.
slantyyz 7y ago
> Amazon can take action anytime it wants. These new verified purchase review scams are because Amazon took action against incentivized reviews (which had disclosure rules that most reviewers obeyed). Yeah, incentivized reviews might not have been great, but they were easy to spot and ignore. Their ban has led to something much, much worse.
- FussyZeus 7y ago
  It's not hard to picture this having been a regular feature before that, though. I pretty much assume every review of 5 stars is a shill review, and 1 star is someone who's a moron and bought the wrong thing, used it wrong, what have you. The ones in the middle are where you'll find real people who often tout both the pros and the cons, acknowledging that while a product isn't perfect, it's still good, or just saying that while they see the value in it, the construction isn't up to par, etc. etc. Consuming reviews well is a skill you learn as you shop online. Frankly I think Amazon should stay the course. You can't possibly eliminate all the fakers. If they want to improve the service, they should just stop selling knockoffs altogether and be done with it. For example: When I was shopping for surveillance cameras for my home, I found ones of apparently good quality that I liked. The 1 star reviews were nothing but bitching about spyware and the NSA, and the 5 stars didn't mention any possible drawbacks. A long and well written 4-star review, however, described the picture quality in detail, the issues with installing, but that once it was installed it was indeed a good product. And they included the technical details needed to establish firewall rules to prevent them sending data back to Singapore.
  - LorenPechtel 7y ago
    I don't disregard the 5 star ones but I take them with a grain of salt. I tend to look at the negative ones and see what they're complaining about--it's surprising how many are griping about things that aren't the fault of the product at all.
- bscphil 7y ago
  > Yeah, incentivized reviews might not have been great, but they were easy to spot and ignore. Their ban has led to something much, much worse. Maybe, but it's hard to get a clear picture of what an appropriate rating would be for an item that's 4.7 stars with 500 reviews, and only some of the 5-star reviews claim to be incentivized.
rootsudo 7y ago
Okay, spin me on how it's against the law? Reviews are the opinion of the person.
- henryfjordan 7y ago
  Per the FCC, you must disclose advertisements. If a consumer's opinion of your review would be changed by the knowledge that you have a relationship with the seller (because they paid you, or sent you something for free), then your review is an advertisement and you must disclose that relationship. Not doing so is illegal. I think if you don't stand to make any money or get free stuff and just like posting fake reviews on Amazon for fun, then that's legal (although likely against the ToS).
  - CamelCaseName 7y ago
    You are correct, small nitpick, it's per the FTC, not FCC. One interesting thing I learned while trying to find a link -- You may not use the exact wording provided by an advertiser unless you specifically disclose that you used their exact wording. https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/attachments/press-releases/ftc-publishes-final-guides-governing-endorsements-testimonials/091005revisedendorsementguides.pdf https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/attachments/press-re...
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  Here you go: https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2019/02/ftc-brings-first-case-challenging-fake-paid-reviews-independent https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2019/02/ftc-b...

patentatt 7y ago

How are fake reviews against the law? And how do we know that they’re fake? She has the product, and tells her opinion of it. How do we judge if her opinion is fake? I know full well the circumstantial evidence argument, but from a legal point of view, I think you’d need more.

ceejayoz 7y ago
https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/ftcs-endorsement-guides-what-people-are-asking https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/ftc... > Suppose you meet someone who tells you about a great new product. She tells you it performs wonderfully and offers fantastic new features that nobody else has. Would that recommendation factor into your decision to buy the product? Probably. > Now suppose the person works for the company that sells the product – or has been paid by the company to tout the product. Would you want to know that when you’re evaluating the endorser’s glowing recommendation? You bet. That common-sense premise is at the heart of the Federal Trade Commission’s (FTC) Endorsement Guides. And yes, they can go after you for it: https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2019/05/ftc-approves-final-consent-order-against-urthbox-inc-its https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2019/05/ftc-a...
nkrisc 7y ago
The FTC thinks it's fraudulent[0]. She's paid to provide the review (always 5 stars, never anything explicitly negative), yet doesn't disclose the fact she was reimbursed for the purchase by the seller. The intent of the scheme is to deceive other shoppers, regardless of the specific arrangement between her and the sellers. [0]https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2019/02/ftc-brings-first-case-challenging-fake-paid-reviews-independent https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2019/02/ftc-b...
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

Jaruzel 7y ago

Ah, but by asking the reviewer every time to confirm they are leaving an honest review, squarely puts the reviewer in the wrong if they get caught. It also put front and centre what can happen if they break the ToS.

zrobotics 7y ago
Problem is this just puts another barrier against legitimate reviews. Amazon doesn't want to add friction to the review process, since that will discourage actual reviews and not bother the fake reviewers at all. I've only reviewed a few items on Amazon, mostly when an item stood out as really good or absolute crap. For instance, my last review was 1 star for an esp8266 that was so poorly faked they had mounted an op-amp instead of the microcontroller (I assume because it was the cheapest thing they could find in the package size). If there are barriers to leaving a review, actual customers will leave less reviews. I certainly don't want to have to tick multiple checkboxes in order to review an item, I will just not bother leaving a review.
- arcticfox 7y ago
  > Amazon doesn't want to add friction to the review process, since that will discourage actual reviews and not bother the fake reviewers at all. Who cares about barriers to legitimate reviews? There are millions on Amazon, hundreds for any popular product. The problem is they're swamped out by the millions of fake/illegitimate ones.
MichaelApproved 7y ago
They already know this. Jessica and the rest understand it's immoral to do this. She even says so in the article.

slantyyz 7y ago

> Amazon can take action anytime it wants. These new verified purchase review scams are because Amazon took action against incentivized reviews (which had disclosure rules that most reviewers obeyed). Yeah, incentivized reviews might not have been great, but they were easy to spot and ignore. Their ban has led to something much, much worse.

FussyZeus 7y ago
It's not hard to picture this having been a regular feature before that, though. I pretty much assume every review of 5 stars is a shill review, and 1 star is someone who's a moron and bought the wrong thing, used it wrong, what have you. The ones in the middle are where you'll find real people who often tout both the pros and the cons, acknowledging that while a product isn't perfect, it's still good, or just saying that while they see the value in it, the construction isn't up to par, etc. etc. Consuming reviews well is a skill you learn as you shop online. Frankly I think Amazon should stay the course. You can't possibly eliminate all the fakers. If they want to improve the service, they should just stop selling knockoffs altogether and be done with it. For example: When I was shopping for surveillance cameras for my home, I found ones of apparently good quality that I liked. The 1 star reviews were nothing but bitching about spyware and the NSA, and the 5 stars didn't mention any possible drawbacks. A long and well written 4-star review, however, described the picture quality in detail, the issues with installing, but that once it was installed it was indeed a good product. And they included the technical details needed to establish firewall rules to prevent them sending data back to Singapore.
- LorenPechtel 7y ago
  I don't disregard the 5 star ones but I take them with a grain of salt. I tend to look at the negative ones and see what they're complaining about--it's surprising how many are griping about things that aren't the fault of the product at all.
bscphil 7y ago
> Yeah, incentivized reviews might not have been great, but they were easy to spot and ignore. Their ban has led to something much, much worse. Maybe, but it's hard to get a clear picture of what an appropriate rating would be for an item that's 4.7 stars with 500 reviews, and only some of the 5-star reviews claim to be incentivized.

rootsudo 7y ago

Okay, spin me on how it's against the law? Reviews are the opinion of the person.

henryfjordan 7y ago
Per the FCC, you must disclose advertisements. If a consumer's opinion of your review would be changed by the knowledge that you have a relationship with the seller (because they paid you, or sent you something for free), then your review is an advertisement and you must disclose that relationship. Not doing so is illegal. I think if you don't stand to make any money or get free stuff and just like posting fake reviews on Amazon for fun, then that's legal (although likely against the ToS).
- CamelCaseName 7y ago
  You are correct, small nitpick, it's per the FTC, not FCC. One interesting thing I learned while trying to find a link -- You may not use the exact wording provided by an advertiser unless you specifically disclose that you used their exact wording. https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/attachments/press-releases/ftc-publishes-final-guides-governing-endorsements-testimonials/091005revisedendorsementguides.pdf https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/attachments/press-re...
ceejayoz 7y ago
Here you go: https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2019/02/ftc-brings-first-case-challenging-fake-paid-reviews-independent https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2019/02/ftc-b...