6 ms·

I've been struggling with the new editor for the past week or so. I finally sent this feedback to Slack today: Hi there, when the WYSIWYG editor rolled out,

by johnmaguire2013 7y ago

I've been struggling with the new editor for the past week or so. I finally sent this feedback to Slack today: Hi there, when the WYSIWYG editor rolled out, I was pleased to see it could be disabled with the "Aa" button in the bottom right. I quickly realized it's not disabled, the toolbar is just hidden. Here are the problems I run into: 1. Typing ``` and then pasting and typing it again (force of habit from *every other service that uses Markdown* including Slack up until this point), leaving me with an extra ``` inside my code block. 2. Typing >, pasting, and hitting enter too quickly that it doesn't seem to register. Or it registers for one line, but not the rest. Then I have to fix the rest. I'd prefer the old method of simply typing > in front of each line, consistently. But even when I try this, sometimes > doesn't get converted to quotes. 3. Typing :emoji_name: often times results in me typing the name too quickly, and, similar to the bad auto-selection of @-names, it chooses an emoji whose name I didn't type (even though I typed an emoji name exactly). Please just don't touch it until the full thing is parsed on send. 4. *foo*, _foo_, etc. -- again, I type very quickly (~158wpm when going my fastest) and these aren't getting converted. I'd expect if they don't get converted when I type it, they'd at least get converted on send. They don't. Please give me a way to opt out of this or drastically improve it. Thank you. I was disheartened to hear that Slack is adamant they will not allow this to be disabled: Thank you for taking the time to write in and provide this feedback. I apologize for the disruption to your existing workflows. Our aim is to build an editor that works for all Slack users to better format their messages and clearly communicate in channels, regardless of their technical expertise. While we are taking all feedback on board, disabling the new formatting tool isn't an option that we will be offering. We are committed to doing what we can to improve the new experience for you, and will continue to make improvements to the new editor. Thank you for sharing these specific examples as we're carefully reviewing all feedback and passing it over to our product team.

strictnein 7y ago
Really frustrating seeing them repeat the "disrupting your workflow" bit. It's not a "workflow" app, it's a chat app.
tradesmanhelix 7y ago
Maybe if they start getting enough emails/tweets they will reconsider this...emailing them now...
- yborg 7y ago
  Slack is an enterprise product. You aren't the guy who buys it, so what you think is irrelevant. They don't care anymore, user experience won't affect their bottom line unless it somehow becomes a Powerpoint bullet vs. some other enterprise competitor, which by definition is equally unconcerned about end-user opinions for the same reasons. Atlassian is the same way now, providing any kind of feedback to them is equivalent to sending it to /dev/null. The other thing here is the beauty of a SaaS model once you are an established player. Some product manager inside Slack or Atlassian can upend the user experience of millions of people almost instantly and they can't escape it - an origanization can't just decide to stay on an older version or roll back. Your only choice to drop a subscription for a service in use across your whole organization and which will require going through huge organizational inertia to change. It's ultimately bad for the SaaS companies as well since they never get any real feedback on how their product is perceived (subscription revenue is stable!) until their junk gets so bad that a new competitor without the baggage comes in and suddenly upends the market. Kind of like ... Slack, five years ago. It can happen fast.
  - thephyber 7y ago
    > what you think is irrelevant If Slack thinks this, they are only 2-3 years from getting overtaken by a disruptor. I don't think they do. How much sway angry emails have over actual usage is a different question. Facebook notoriously used analytics and A/B tests to decide if feature changes stayed, not angry complaint messages.
    - jcmontx 7y ago
      > they are only 2-3 years from getting overtaken by a disruptor There are literally dozens to hundreds of cases that prove otherwise. Look at all the current tech giants...
ryeights 7y ago
For mobile users: >Hi there, when the WYSIWYG editor rolled out, I was pleased to see it could be disabled with the "Aa" button in the bottom right. I quickly realized it's not disabled, the toolbar is just hidden. >Here are the problems I run into: >1. Typing ``` and then pasting and typing it again (force of habit from every other service that uses Markdown including Slack up until this point), leaving me with an extra ``` inside my code block. >2. Typing >, pasting, and hitting enter too quickly that it doesn't seem to register. Or it registers for one line, but not the rest. Then I have to fix the rest. I'd prefer the old method of simply typing > in front of each line, consistently. But even when I try this, sometimes > doesn't get converted to quotes. >3. Typing :emoji_name: often times results in me typing the name too quickly, and, similar to the bad auto-selection of @-names, it chooses an emoji whose name I didn't type (even though I typed an emoji name exactly). Please just don't touch it until the full thing is parsed on send. >4. foo, _foo_, etc. -- again, I type very quickly (~158wpm when going my fastest) and these aren't getting converted. I'd expect if they don't get converted when I type it, they'd at least get converted on send. They don't. >Please give me a way to opt out of this or drastically improve it. Thank you. I was disheartened to hear that Slack is adamant they will not allow this to be disabled: >Thank you for taking the time to write in and provide this feedback. I apologize for the disruption to your existing workflows. Our aim is to build an editor that works for all Slack users to better format their messages and clearly communicate in channels, regardless of their technical expertise. While we are taking all feedback on board, disabling the new formatting tool isn't an option that we will be offering. >We are committed to doing what we can to improve the new experience for you, and will continue to make improvements to the new editor. Thank you for sharing these specific examples as we're carefully reviewing all feedback and passing it over to our product team.
- 0xffff2 7y ago
  >For mobile users: Damn near impossible to read on my 4k desktop monitor too. Is there a reason people are so insistent on using the monospace formatting for quotes?
  - johnmaguire2013 7y ago
    I tried using a quote first, but the fact that you need to double-space between paragraphs, even when using the > symbol broke the formatting. To avoid spending too much time figuring it out, I switched to blockquote. Sorry!
t34543 7y ago
Slack is extremely hostile towards user feedback. I sent them comments on what I believe to be a terrible feature and they also told me it will never be changed.
- bityard 7y ago
  This is what "opinionated" looks like.
  - artursapek 7y ago
    Something something Steve Jobs
    - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
      See, Steve Jobs could get away with this because he was exceptionally good at making the right choices, at least in the later part of his life. When others try to emulate him, it doesn't go as well.
      - seebs 7y ago
        Yes. For instance, Apple's spent the last couple of years emulating his visionary design decisions, focused specifically on "get thinner and thinner until you can't actually do your job anymore".
        Wowfunhappy 7y ago
        Apple has spent the last couple of years focused on one thing that Jobs frequently pushed for, without stepping back and looking at the whole product in the manner I'd have expected from Jobs. We'll never actually know unless someone finds a way to raise the dead, but I personally believe that Jobs would never have allowed those butterfly keyboards out the door.
- thephyber 7y ago
  "extremely hostile" sounds hyperbolic. Unless you were somehow attacked, threatened, sent a C&D, or had an account disabled, they simply steamrolled over your opinions. And they are far from the first consumer-facing company to deal with user backlash when a new feature came out. Facebook notoriously got an onslaught of negative opinions and sometimes press when a feature in the UI changed. The UI never caused any significant migration away from Facebook, only the privacy/surveillance concerns, vitriol, and the "embarrassed by my parents" un-cooling of the platform caused users to leave. From what I read here and elsewhere about feedback from customer service, I suspect there is a push from management down to product to hit certain targets (I don't have visibility into Slack's internal metrics, but this is exactly how it presented in my previous company).

strictnein 7y ago

Really frustrating seeing them repeat the "disrupting your workflow" bit. It's not a "workflow" app, it's a chat app.

tradesmanhelix 7y ago

Maybe if they start getting enough emails/tweets they will reconsider this...emailing them now...

yborg 7y ago
Slack is an enterprise product. You aren't the guy who buys it, so what you think is irrelevant. They don't care anymore, user experience won't affect their bottom line unless it somehow becomes a Powerpoint bullet vs. some other enterprise competitor, which by definition is equally unconcerned about end-user opinions for the same reasons. Atlassian is the same way now, providing any kind of feedback to them is equivalent to sending it to /dev/null. The other thing here is the beauty of a SaaS model once you are an established player. Some product manager inside Slack or Atlassian can upend the user experience of millions of people almost instantly and they can't escape it - an origanization can't just decide to stay on an older version or roll back. Your only choice to drop a subscription for a service in use across your whole organization and which will require going through huge organizational inertia to change. It's ultimately bad for the SaaS companies as well since they never get any real feedback on how their product is perceived (subscription revenue is stable!) until their junk gets so bad that a new competitor without the baggage comes in and suddenly upends the market. Kind of like ... Slack, five years ago. It can happen fast.
- thephyber 7y ago
  > what you think is irrelevant If Slack thinks this, they are only 2-3 years from getting overtaken by a disruptor. I don't think they do. How much sway angry emails have over actual usage is a different question. Facebook notoriously used analytics and A/B tests to decide if feature changes stayed, not angry complaint messages.
  - jcmontx 7y ago
    > they are only 2-3 years from getting overtaken by a disruptor There are literally dozens to hundreds of cases that prove otherwise. Look at all the current tech giants...

ryeights 7y ago

For mobile users: >Hi there, when the WYSIWYG editor rolled out, I was pleased to see it could be disabled with the "Aa" button in the bottom right. I quickly realized it's not disabled, the toolbar is just hidden. >Here are the problems I run into: >1. Typing ``` and then pasting and typing it again (force of habit from every other service that uses Markdown including Slack up until this point), leaving me with an extra ``` inside my code block. >2. Typing >, pasting, and hitting enter too quickly that it doesn't seem to register. Or it registers for one line, but not the rest. Then I have to fix the rest. I'd prefer the old method of simply typing > in front of each line, consistently. But even when I try this, sometimes > doesn't get converted to quotes. >3. Typing :emoji_name: often times results in me typing the name too quickly, and, similar to the bad auto-selection of @-names, it chooses an emoji whose name I didn't type (even though I typed an emoji name exactly). Please just don't touch it until the full thing is parsed on send. >4. foo, _foo_, etc. -- again, I type very quickly (~158wpm when going my fastest) and these aren't getting converted. I'd expect if they don't get converted when I type it, they'd at least get converted on send. They don't. >Please give me a way to opt out of this or drastically improve it. Thank you. I was disheartened to hear that Slack is adamant they will not allow this to be disabled: >Thank you for taking the time to write in and provide this feedback. I apologize for the disruption to your existing workflows. Our aim is to build an editor that works for all Slack users to better format their messages and clearly communicate in channels, regardless of their technical expertise. While we are taking all feedback on board, disabling the new formatting tool isn't an option that we will be offering. >We are committed to doing what we can to improve the new experience for you, and will continue to make improvements to the new editor. Thank you for sharing these specific examples as we're carefully reviewing all feedback and passing it over to our product team.

0xffff2 7y ago
>For mobile users: Damn near impossible to read on my 4k desktop monitor too. Is there a reason people are so insistent on using the monospace formatting for quotes?
- johnmaguire2013 7y ago
  I tried using a quote first, but the fact that you need to double-space between paragraphs, even when using the > symbol broke the formatting. To avoid spending too much time figuring it out, I switched to blockquote. Sorry!

t34543 7y ago

Slack is extremely hostile towards user feedback. I sent them comments on what I believe to be a terrible feature and they also told me it will never be changed.

bityard 7y ago
This is what "opinionated" looks like.
- artursapek 7y ago
  Something something Steve Jobs
  - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
    See, Steve Jobs could get away with this because he was exceptionally good at making the right choices, at least in the later part of his life. When others try to emulate him, it doesn't go as well.
    - seebs 7y ago
      Yes. For instance, Apple's spent the last couple of years emulating his visionary design decisions, focused specifically on "get thinner and thinner until you can't actually do your job anymore".
      - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
        Apple has spent the last couple of years focused on one thing that Jobs frequently pushed for, without stepping back and looking at the whole product in the manner I'd have expected from Jobs. We'll never actually know unless someone finds a way to raise the dead, but I personally believe that Jobs would never have allowed those butterfly keyboards out the door.
thephyber 7y ago
"extremely hostile" sounds hyperbolic. Unless you were somehow attacked, threatened, sent a C&D, or had an account disabled, they simply steamrolled over your opinions. And they are far from the first consumer-facing company to deal with user backlash when a new feature came out. Facebook notoriously got an onslaught of negative opinions and sometimes press when a feature in the UI changed. The UI never caused any significant migration away from Facebook, only the privacy/surveillance concerns, vitriol, and the "embarrassed by my parents" un-cooling of the platform caused users to leave. From what I read here and elsewhere about feedback from customer service, I suspect there is a push from management down to product to hit certain targets (I don't have visibility into Slack's internal metrics, but this is exactly how it presented in my previous company).