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Maybe it's easy to say but it feels more like a cultural problem than a technical/procedural one. Why the fuck did they let this happen in the first place? Wh

Maybe it's easy to say but it feels more like a cultural problem than a technical/procedural one. Why the fuck did they let this happen in the first place? Where is this mentality that even the backside of a cabinet should be build well?

dylan604 7y ago
>Where is this mentality that even the backside of a cabinet should be build well? Pride in quality of work? Why does the backside have to be be NOT built well? I hate crappy pressed wood furniture, but the same piece of furniture built by real craftsman using real materials raises the price from ~$250 to over $1200. Admittedly, apples and oranges, but the point is valid.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  I think it's possible to interpret the comment as asking "where has the mentality gone" rather than "where is this mentality coming from".
  - jonathanbull 7y ago
    Yep, louwrentius is referencing this Jobs quote - https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/445621-when-you-re-a-carpenter-making-a-beautiful-chest-of-drawers https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/445621-when-you-re-a-carpen...
cmg 7y ago
> Why the fuck did they let this happen in the first place? Blame the annual expected release of a new iPhone that Apple trained us on and that markets and consumers now expect. For those phones to be ready to ship on the date that Apple promises, they have to be produced and boxed up. The phones require a new version of iOS for hardware support (which makes sense) meaning there's a certain time before the phone release date that a GM of the newest version of iOS has to be released to manufacturing.
kaolti 7y ago
Because it's inevitable at a certain scale. The brand has a momentum, even if things start getting worse for customers there isn't an immediate response on a large scale. A certain quality is important for the "true" advocates, but we're a small minority. Growth is driven by at scale customers who don't notice these issues because they're buying the products for different reasons. In this context, improving quality to keep the hardcore fans happy costs money, but doesn't impact the bottom line significantly in the short term. Growth is the only goal at this scale and that's driven by other strategies and not hardcore fans. I guess long story short is corporations are cash machines and product quality does not play an important part at this scale.
- TheOtherHobbes 7y ago
  That's not how it works. How it works is that your brand suffers, and sales drift downwards. When you attempt new projects outside of your skill envelope - a Maps application, a self-driving car, VR/AR hardware, a move to ARM - you either don't finish on schedule, don't finish at all and are forced to cancel, or you unleash a shit storm of bugs and negativity that costs far more than any nominal savings you might persuade yourself you've made by not doing QA properly. It's a cultural problem. Not only is skimping on QA and customer support cheap, it looks and feels cheap. And that's not a good look when you're trying to sell yourself as a premium brand. To be fair, customer abuse is not unusual among premium brands. Prestige cars are notoriously crap for reliability and build quality. But Apple is a prestige consumer brand, and the brand experience is the most important asset. If customers stop believing in the brand, all Apple has left is Dell or HP but with nicer packaging.

dylan604 7y ago

>Where is this mentality that even the backside of a cabinet should be build well? Pride in quality of work? Why does the backside have to be be NOT built well? I hate crappy pressed wood furniture, but the same piece of furniture built by real craftsman using real materials raises the price from ~$250 to over $1200. Admittedly, apples and oranges, but the point is valid.

saagarjha 7y ago
I think it's possible to interpret the comment as asking "where has the mentality gone" rather than "where is this mentality coming from".
- jonathanbull 7y ago
  Yep, louwrentius is referencing this Jobs quote - https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/445621-when-you-re-a-carpenter-making-a-beautiful-chest-of-drawers https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/445621-when-you-re-a-carpen...

cmg 7y ago

> Why the fuck did they let this happen in the first place? Blame the annual expected release of a new iPhone that Apple trained us on and that markets and consumers now expect. For those phones to be ready to ship on the date that Apple promises, they have to be produced and boxed up. The phones require a new version of iOS for hardware support (which makes sense) meaning there's a certain time before the phone release date that a GM of the newest version of iOS has to be released to manufacturing.

kaolti 7y ago

Because it's inevitable at a certain scale. The brand has a momentum, even if things start getting worse for customers there isn't an immediate response on a large scale. A certain quality is important for the "true" advocates, but we're a small minority. Growth is driven by at scale customers who don't notice these issues because they're buying the products for different reasons. In this context, improving quality to keep the hardcore fans happy costs money, but doesn't impact the bottom line significantly in the short term. Growth is the only goal at this scale and that's driven by other strategies and not hardcore fans. I guess long story short is corporations are cash machines and product quality does not play an important part at this scale.

TheOtherHobbes 7y ago
That's not how it works. How it works is that your brand suffers, and sales drift downwards. When you attempt new projects outside of your skill envelope - a Maps application, a self-driving car, VR/AR hardware, a move to ARM - you either don't finish on schedule, don't finish at all and are forced to cancel, or you unleash a shit storm of bugs and negativity that costs far more than any nominal savings you might persuade yourself you've made by not doing QA properly. It's a cultural problem. Not only is skimping on QA and customer support cheap, it looks and feels cheap. And that's not a good look when you're trying to sell yourself as a premium brand. To be fair, customer abuse is not unusual among premium brands. Prestige cars are notoriously crap for reliability and build quality. But Apple is a prestige consumer brand, and the brand experience is the most important asset. If customers stop believing in the brand, all Apple has left is Dell or HP but with nicer packaging.