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It is in areas where is needed to support a family without going into debt, which seems to be almost expected today

by apta 7y ago

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
ebg13 7y ago
Living in the most desirable spot while supporting a spouse who doesn't work and also children is more than almost everyone else can afford, not ordinary. Ask your local kitchen staff how much they make and where they live.
eesmith 7y ago
Where are those areas? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-income_counties_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-income_countie... says that Loudoun County, VA has the highest median household income, and that's only $134,464 . How much do the local teachers get paid? Police? Restaurant staff? A quick look finds things like https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/080916/top-10-most-expensive-cities-us.asp https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/08091... which says that "It takes more than $119,000 to live well in San Francisco". $250k/year is rather a lot higher than $119,000. https://eu.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/04/04/what-it-actually-costs-to-live-in-americas-most-expensive-cities/37748097/ https://eu.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/04/04/what-it-actua... uses a cost-of-living calculation which says that San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA has the highest costs in the US, with a monthly living cost for family of 4 of $10,758. That's $130K/year, again rather less than $250k/year.
- hellisothers 7y ago
  Come on, you are being at the least disingenuous, that $250k is taxes down to around $130 so now that $250k is going entirely to COL. No savings, no retirement, no vacations, that’s “just surviving” which is the OP’s point. $250k is extremely relative
  - eesmith 7y ago
    Again I ask where, and How much do the local teachers get paid? Police? Restaurant staff?. I'm not being disingenuous. If teachers must go into debt because $80K/year isn't enough to live on, then there are structural failures. If minimum wage is $15/hour = $30K a year, then how do the dish washers for the restaurants make a living?
    - apta 7y ago
      If the local teachers are not getting paid enough, then perhaps the problem lays elsewhere. Why is it that a couple of generations ago, a family on a single income where the father was working at a gas station was enough to buy a car and a house, when this is practically impossible today.
      - eesmith 7y ago
        One obvious and relevant possibility is that two generations ago the marginal tax rates were much more progressive. Don't think that only you will be taxed higher, while the rest of the market stays the same. If everyone making $250K or over is taxed more heavily then they can't afford to take so much land off the market. How many $5 million homes will there be in Atherton if the marginal tax rate for the top 20% of earners was what it was in 1960? https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm says $250K(2019) is about $35K(1969). https://www.tax-brackets.org/federaltaxtable/1969 https://www.tax-brackets.org/federaltaxtable/1969 says the tax rate on $35K(1969) in 1969 would have been about 55%. BTW, hellisothers wrote "that $250k is taxes down to around $130". https://www.taxformcalculator.com/tax/250000.html https://www.taxformcalculator.com/tax/250000.html says estimated take-home pay in CA on $250K is $160K, which gives extra $30K/year over hellisothers's estimate, which can easily go to savings, retirement, and vacations. That is, the overall current tax rate in CA is about 37%. As the article points out, the tax for >$250K would go from "the current tax of 12.4" to 14.8 percent rate for Warren's proposal, which is also "supported by a broad coalition of House Democrats." So the overall rate would be no more than about 40%. Much less than a couple of generations ago.
- ebg13 7y ago
  > says that San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA has the highest costs in the US, with a monthly living cost for family of 4 of $10,758. That's $130K/year In fact what they say is: > Monthly living costs, family of 4: $10,758 > Monthly housing costs, family of 4: $2,522 I'm extremely dubious of anyone who says that spending an extra 4x multiple of housing every month ($8200/month) isn't egregiously wasteful. This is the problem with rich people. They keep trying to justify that spending $8000/month on whatever is normal.

It is in areas where is needed to support a family without going into debt, which seems to be almost expected today

by apta 7y ago

It is in areas where is needed to support a family without going into debt, which seems to be almost expected today

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

ebg13 7y ago

Living in the most desirable spot while supporting a spouse who doesn't work and also children is more than almost everyone else can afford, not ordinary. Ask your local kitchen staff how much they make and where they live.

eesmith 7y ago

Where are those areas? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-income_counties_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-income_countie... says that Loudoun County, VA has the highest median household income, and that's only $134,464 . How much do the local teachers get paid? Police? Restaurant staff? A quick look finds things like https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/080916/top-10-most-expensive-cities-us.asp https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/08091... which says that "It takes more than $119,000 to live well in San Francisco". $250k/year is rather a lot higher than $119,000. https://eu.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/04/04/what-it-actually-costs-to-live-in-americas-most-expensive-cities/37748097/ https://eu.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/04/04/what-it-actua... uses a cost-of-living calculation which says that San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA has the highest costs in the US, with a monthly living cost for family of 4 of $10,758. That's $130K/year, again rather less than $250k/year.

hellisothers 7y ago
Come on, you are being at the least disingenuous, that $250k is taxes down to around $130 so now that $250k is going entirely to COL. No savings, no retirement, no vacations, that’s “just surviving” which is the OP’s point. $250k is extremely relative
- eesmith 7y ago
  Again I ask where, and How much do the local teachers get paid? Police? Restaurant staff?. I'm not being disingenuous. If teachers must go into debt because $80K/year isn't enough to live on, then there are structural failures. If minimum wage is $15/hour = $30K a year, then how do the dish washers for the restaurants make a living?
  - apta 7y ago
    If the local teachers are not getting paid enough, then perhaps the problem lays elsewhere. Why is it that a couple of generations ago, a family on a single income where the father was working at a gas station was enough to buy a car and a house, when this is practically impossible today.
    - eesmith 7y ago
      One obvious and relevant possibility is that two generations ago the marginal tax rates were much more progressive. Don't think that only you will be taxed higher, while the rest of the market stays the same. If everyone making $250K or over is taxed more heavily then they can't afford to take so much land off the market. How many $5 million homes will there be in Atherton if the marginal tax rate for the top 20% of earners was what it was in 1960? https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm says $250K(2019) is about $35K(1969). https://www.tax-brackets.org/federaltaxtable/1969 https://www.tax-brackets.org/federaltaxtable/1969 says the tax rate on $35K(1969) in 1969 would have been about 55%. BTW, hellisothers wrote "that $250k is taxes down to around $130". https://www.taxformcalculator.com/tax/250000.html https://www.taxformcalculator.com/tax/250000.html says estimated take-home pay in CA on $250K is $160K, which gives extra $30K/year over hellisothers's estimate, which can easily go to savings, retirement, and vacations. That is, the overall current tax rate in CA is about 37%. As the article points out, the tax for >$250K would go from "the current tax of 12.4" to 14.8 percent rate for Warren's proposal, which is also "supported by a broad coalition of House Democrats." So the overall rate would be no more than about 40%. Much less than a couple of generations ago.
ebg13 7y ago
> says that San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA has the highest costs in the US, with a monthly living cost for family of 4 of $10,758. That's $130K/year In fact what they say is: > Monthly living costs, family of 4: $10,758 > Monthly housing costs, family of 4: $2,522 I'm extremely dubious of anyone who says that spending an extra 4x multiple of housing every month ($8200/month) isn't egregiously wasteful. This is the problem with rich people. They keep trying to justify that spending $8000/month on whatever is normal.