5 ms·

Tim Cook Appears Alongside Trump in Re-Election Campaign Ad Shot

73 points by mrzool 7y ago

samshoru 7y ago
I didn't know the creator of Markdown had trump derangement syndrome. We really learn something new everyday.
nextstep 7y ago
People constantly act so surprised when liberals in the business community are tolerant of fascists, but this is naive and just shows how unfamiliar someone like Gruber is with historical events. The New Yorker just published a great piece about exactly this: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/11/11/liberalism-according-to-the-economist https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/11/11/liberalism-acc...
- DavidSJ 7y ago
  Criticism does not imply surprise. For if it did, we’d have to assume that you are surprised by behavior you yourself describe as constant. And I don’t believe you are.
twgrp 7y ago
Liberals acting as if standing next to the President of the USA was like standing next to Beelzebub himself.
- smt88 7y ago
  Shouldn't the CEO of a major corporation try to appear politically neutral? It's especially strange because Cook is gay, and Trump and Republicans are trying to create a right for businesses to refuse service to gay people solely because they're gay.
  - atypicality 7y ago
    I would like to see your credible source that supports this statement. Can you reference?
    - smt88 7y ago
      It's not a secret. It's an open, nationwide effort at all levels of government. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/republicans-plan-bring-back-religious-freedom-bill https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/republicans-plan-bring...
      - atypicality 7y ago
        Your link made your earlier statement appear disingenuous. One person's beliefs against the concept of same-sex marriage doesn't necessarily mean said person is anti-gay. Those are two different issues really. One represents a social construct (and legal arrangement) and the other involves a personal preference or choice of lifestyle. Many who are against same-sex marriage still believe in the freedoms people should have in choosing their sexual partners.
        smt88 7y ago
        I never said anyone is anti-gay. I said exactly what I meant: Trump/GOP are trying to create and enforce the right of businesses to discriminate against gay people. That's not just "beliefs". It is discriminatory action. People have a right to believe what they want, but they shouldn't have the state's sanction to discriminate based on those beliefs.
        atypicality 7y ago
        Are you OK with the government infringing on the freedoms of a bakery to choose what business they accept thus forcing a baker to make a wedding cake for a same-sex wedding despite that baker's beliefs on the contrary?
        smt88 7y ago
zozbot234 7y ago
inb4 Tim Cook changes his name to Tim Apple
kresten 7y ago
A smart Silicon Valley leader plays The President well. That is all.
- coldtea 7y ago
  If the President is re-elected partially thanks to that, then it's the President who played the "smart Silicon Valley leader". Or rather, it's two smart people making alliances of opportunity to get what they want...
Reason077 7y ago
Perhaps there's some "quid pro quo" going on here? Tim appears in Trump's campaign ad, Trump rolls back trade tariffs that could affect Apple?
- mc32 7y ago
  The kind of quid pro quo that happened when I gave apple money and I got a phone in return?
thathndude 7y ago
But we all know Tim Cook didn’t like a second of it. He’s balancing his personal feelings with his duties of loyalty and care (he owes to Apple Inc). Tim Cook is doing the best he can in a garbage situation. He’s not rolling over for Trump, but he’s also not antagonizing Trump (which I know a lot of people want to see). Cook’s being savvy. Cook is crushing it. Gruber got this take wrong. Gruber is letting political feelings infect his job as a journalist.
- mcphage 7y ago
  > Cook’s being savvy. Cook is crushing it. This isn't being savvy. This is realizing you were on the receiving end of another "I'd like you to do a favor for us though".
buboard 7y ago
This topic will go down very well.
H8crilA 7y ago
Holy shit, right after Trump said that "Apple may be exempt from tariffs". https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/trump-apple-tim-cook-exempt-from-china-tariffs-factory-tour-2019-11 https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/trump-a...
- coldtea 7y ago
  Correlation does not imply causation /s
yabadabadoes 7y ago
It sounds like fact checked news, but is it? I would hate to give anyone mentioned in this article an example of the time they were falsely accused of something by an actual fake news source. https://daringfireball.net/2019/10/correction_regarding_an_erroneous_allegation https://daringfireball.net/2019/10/correction_regarding_an_e...
- mcphage 7y ago
  > It sounds like fact checked news, but is it? Um... which bit do you think is wrong?
  - yabadabadoes 7y ago
    So this is the new fact checking, after the outrage machine is in full swing? I think everyone has seen how this works with alt-right social news blogging, and we've already seen this blogger feed the flames with false accusations retracted later. I don't agree with the likes of Zuckerberg (though I think even he is backtracking) that fake news can be algorithmically detected precisely due to this example blog. There is no proof of work in fact checking, so outraged "left"/"right" bloggers is worse than no information. If there's something to feed to the media do so, if there's something to feed to special prosecutors or the SEC even better.
    - mcphage 7y ago
      > So this is the new fact checking, after the outrage machine is in full swing? No, like I legit don't have any idea what you're talking about, or if you're even responding to the right article. The claim: Tim Cook Appears Alongside Trump in Re-Election Campaign Ad Shot in Mac Pro Plant in Austin The fact check: The first line of the linked article is to the video tweeted out by Trump: https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1197316106236481539 https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/11973161062364815... Beyond that, I have no idea where you're going with this.
kgraves 7y ago
So what? Flagged. This isn't very intellectually stimulating and a poor take to say the least. I wish HN just sticks to tech instead of politics all the time.
- atypicality 7y ago
  "Please don't complain that a submission is inappropriate. If a story is spam or off-topic, flag it. Don't feed egregious comments by replying; flag them instead. If you flag, please don't also comment that you did." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - kgraves 7y ago
    ok sorry dad.
Schoolmeister 7y ago
From the guidelines on what to submit to HN: "If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity." This does not fit that criterion.
- microtherion 7y ago
  It seems a legitimate debate to me to what extent a company should acquiesce to governments of all sorts. And it's a question that Apple, in particular, has to debate over and over again. iPhone unlocks for the govt? If so, what governments? Allow apps that facilitate protests in Hong Kong? Tolerate or even facilitate oppressive manufacturing or mining conditions? These are not easy questions for a company that has so many world wide dependencies. And, for some of these questions (unlocks, manufacturing, mining), Apple has decided to take a stand on ethical principles rather than convenience.
- coldtea 7y ago
  Intellectual curiosity is not constrained to geeky stuff. Corporations, politics, and corporations' political stances and alliances are very interesting, and could be much more "disrupting" and life changing than some new technique or gadget.
- happytoexplain 7y ago
  Don't you think it's insulting to tell a crowd of people that they are not intellectually stimulated by something? I don't find it intellectually stimulating either, but I wouldn't declare something so personal and subjective as factual ("it's not" vs "I don't think it is" or "it isn't for me"). It's antagonistic for no reason.
  - jbob2000 7y ago
    This is a blog post about a twitter post about a picture. The whole article can be reduced to "tim cook good, trump bad, why in picture together?". HN cannot become reddit, we have to hold our bar higher than blogspam about politics.
microtherion 7y ago
Disappointing. Even beyond the question of malfeasance, there should be at least three policy areas I can think of off the top of my head that Cook should be opposed to: * Constant disruption of international manufacturing and trade relations with a chaotic assembly of policies (as Paul Krugman has pointed out, each individual policy you can, in principle, adjust to. But policies changing on a weekly level are impossible to plan for: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/05/opinion/trump-economy.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/05/opinion/trump-economy.htm...) * Anti-immigrant policies and rhetoric making it harder to hire from abroad (one can debate whether this benefits US workers—I would argue not—but it's certainly not in Apple's self interest). * Anti-LGBT policies and rhetoric. It's admirable that Cook consistently avoid making things about himself, but I think you ought to draw the line at collaborating with politicians who question one's very right to exist.
- docdeek 7y ago
  > It's admirable that Cook consistently avoid making things about himself, but I think you ought to draw the line at collaborating with politicians who question one's very right to exist. Does Trump really question the right of gay men like Cook to exist?
  - microtherion 7y ago
    Maybe not "exist" in a narrow sense, as long as that existence does not include being employed, getting sheltered, adopting, receiving health care, or using a bathroom: https://transequality.org/the-discrimination-administration https://transequality.org/the-discrimination-administration https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/03/trump-attack-lgbt-rights-supreme-court https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/03/trump-attack-l...
    - docdeek 7y ago
      I guess my question was around gay Americans (like Cook) and not transgender Americans. I couldn’t recall too much that had changed for gay people under Trump and it seems like most of the impact in the articles you linked is on transgender people. Thanks for the links.
ablomen 7y ago
"A low moment in Apple’s proud history" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc.#Criticism_and_controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc.#Criticism_and_contr... I think Apple has done a lot worse in its "proud history" and is still doing it.
- me_me_me 7y ago
  It's as if corporations were guided by only one principle make money, a lot of money.
nabla9 7y ago
There has not been any change in how big tech companies deal with hard decisions. It's just people who ate PR, brand management and empty corporate speak about values getting getting deserved reality check. Without a doubt Tim Cook is very strongly socially liberal and anti Trump as long as it's does not hurt business opportunities or the future of Apple.
- coldtea 7y ago
  >Without a doubt Tim Cook is very strongly socially liberal and anti Trump as long as it's does not hurt business opportunities or the future of Apple. So in every way except those that don't suit him!
Grue3 7y ago
The main alternative seems to be Warren who openly proposes policies to dismantle Apple, among other companies. So it makes sense that he'd go all in to prevent her from being elected, it's his fiduciary duty after all.
- 333c 7y ago
  > Warren who openly proposes policies to dismantle Apple I don't think this is true. Can you provide a source or quote from her?
  - Grue3 7y ago
    https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/9/18257965/elizabeth-warren-break-up-apple-monopoly-antitrust https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/9/18257965/elizabeth-warren-... "Apple, you’ve got to break it apart from their App Store. It’s got to be one or the other. Either they run the platform or they play in the store. They don’t get to do both at the same time. So it’s the same notion. "
    - moretai 7y ago
      I don't get it. They created the app store. Developers are choosing to be part of Apple's ecosystem. The ecosystem for Android is absolutely terrible in comparison. Even free apps don't compare to Apple's free apps. That's the dumbest thing I've heard.
    - dariusj18 7y ago
      I wouldn't say that goes so far as to "dismantle" Apple, but it is definitely a proposition to affect perceived anti-competitive practices. I am not sure where I come down on such question, can you describe the benefits and drawbacks of Apple controlling the App Store?
    - 333c 7y ago
      This sounds like a push to allow a third-party App Store on the iPhone, or at least to allow iPhone users to install binaries not directly approved by Apple. That's not the same thing as dismantling Apple.
AlexTWithBeard 7y ago
But why do we think the real Cook is "left-wing" and the hypocritical one is "right-wing", not the other way round?

73 points by mrzool 7y ago

I didn't know the creator of Markdown had trump derangement syndrome. We really learn something new everyday.

People constantly act so surprised when liberals in the business community are tolerant of fascists, but this is naive and just shows how unfamiliar someone like Gruber is with historical events. The New Yorker just published a great piece about exactly this: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/11/11/liberalism-according-to-the-economist https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/11/11/liberalism-acc...

DavidSJ 7y ago
Criticism does not imply surprise. For if it did, we’d have to assume that you are surprised by behavior you yourself describe as constant. And I don’t believe you are.

twgrp 7y ago

Liberals acting as if standing next to the President of the USA was like standing next to Beelzebub himself.

smt88 7y ago
Shouldn't the CEO of a major corporation try to appear politically neutral? It's especially strange because Cook is gay, and Trump and Republicans are trying to create a right for businesses to refuse service to gay people solely because they're gay.
- atypicality 7y ago
  I would like to see your credible source that supports this statement. Can you reference?
  - smt88 7y ago
    It's not a secret. It's an open, nationwide effort at all levels of government. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/republicans-plan-bring-back-religious-freedom-bill https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/republicans-plan-bring...
    - atypicality 7y ago
      Your link made your earlier statement appear disingenuous. One person's beliefs against the concept of same-sex marriage doesn't necessarily mean said person is anti-gay. Those are two different issues really. One represents a social construct (and legal arrangement) and the other involves a personal preference or choice of lifestyle. Many who are against same-sex marriage still believe in the freedoms people should have in choosing their sexual partners.
      - smt88 7y ago
        I never said anyone is anti-gay. I said exactly what I meant: Trump/GOP are trying to create and enforce the right of businesses to discriminate against gay people. That's not just "beliefs". It is discriminatory action. People have a right to believe what they want, but they shouldn't have the state's sanction to discriminate based on those beliefs.
        atypicality 7y ago
        Are you OK with the government infringing on the freedoms of a bakery to choose what business they accept thus forcing a baker to make a wedding cake for a same-sex wedding despite that baker's beliefs on the contrary?
        smt88 7y ago

zozbot234 7y ago

inb4 Tim Cook changes his name to Tim Apple

kresten 7y ago

A smart Silicon Valley leader plays The President well. That is all.

coldtea 7y ago
If the President is re-elected partially thanks to that, then it's the President who played the "smart Silicon Valley leader". Or rather, it's two smart people making alliances of opportunity to get what they want...

Reason077 7y ago

Perhaps there's some "quid pro quo" going on here? Tim appears in Trump's campaign ad, Trump rolls back trade tariffs that could affect Apple?

mc32 7y ago
The kind of quid pro quo that happened when I gave apple money and I got a phone in return?

thathndude 7y ago

But we all know Tim Cook didn’t like a second of it. He’s balancing his personal feelings with his duties of loyalty and care (he owes to Apple Inc). Tim Cook is doing the best he can in a garbage situation. He’s not rolling over for Trump, but he’s also not antagonizing Trump (which I know a lot of people want to see). Cook’s being savvy. Cook is crushing it. Gruber got this take wrong. Gruber is letting political feelings infect his job as a journalist.

mcphage 7y ago
> Cook’s being savvy. Cook is crushing it. This isn't being savvy. This is realizing you were on the receiving end of another "I'd like you to do a favor for us though".

buboard 7y ago

This topic will go down very well.

H8crilA 7y ago

Holy shit, right after Trump said that "Apple may be exempt from tariffs". https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/trump-apple-tim-cook-exempt-from-china-tariffs-factory-tour-2019-11 https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/trump-a...

coldtea 7y ago
Correlation does not imply causation /s

yabadabadoes 7y ago

It sounds like fact checked news, but is it? I would hate to give anyone mentioned in this article an example of the time they were falsely accused of something by an actual fake news source. https://daringfireball.net/2019/10/correction_regarding_an_erroneous_allegation https://daringfireball.net/2019/10/correction_regarding_an_e...

mcphage 7y ago
> It sounds like fact checked news, but is it? Um... which bit do you think is wrong?
- yabadabadoes 7y ago
  So this is the new fact checking, after the outrage machine is in full swing? I think everyone has seen how this works with alt-right social news blogging, and we've already seen this blogger feed the flames with false accusations retracted later. I don't agree with the likes of Zuckerberg (though I think even he is backtracking) that fake news can be algorithmically detected precisely due to this example blog. There is no proof of work in fact checking, so outraged "left"/"right" bloggers is worse than no information. If there's something to feed to the media do so, if there's something to feed to special prosecutors or the SEC even better.
  - mcphage 7y ago
    > So this is the new fact checking, after the outrage machine is in full swing? No, like I legit don't have any idea what you're talking about, or if you're even responding to the right article. The claim: Tim Cook Appears Alongside Trump in Re-Election Campaign Ad Shot in Mac Pro Plant in Austin The fact check: The first line of the linked article is to the video tweeted out by Trump: https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1197316106236481539 https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/11973161062364815... Beyond that, I have no idea where you're going with this.

kgraves 7y ago

So what? Flagged. This isn't very intellectually stimulating and a poor take to say the least. I wish HN just sticks to tech instead of politics all the time.

atypicality 7y ago
"Please don't complain that a submission is inappropriate. If a story is spam or off-topic, flag it. Don't feed egregious comments by replying; flag them instead. If you flag, please don't also comment that you did." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- kgraves 7y ago
  ok sorry dad.

Schoolmeister 7y ago

From the guidelines on what to submit to HN: "If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity." This does not fit that criterion.

microtherion 7y ago
It seems a legitimate debate to me to what extent a company should acquiesce to governments of all sorts. And it's a question that Apple, in particular, has to debate over and over again. iPhone unlocks for the govt? If so, what governments? Allow apps that facilitate protests in Hong Kong? Tolerate or even facilitate oppressive manufacturing or mining conditions? These are not easy questions for a company that has so many world wide dependencies. And, for some of these questions (unlocks, manufacturing, mining), Apple has decided to take a stand on ethical principles rather than convenience.
coldtea 7y ago
Intellectual curiosity is not constrained to geeky stuff. Corporations, politics, and corporations' political stances and alliances are very interesting, and could be much more "disrupting" and life changing than some new technique or gadget.
happytoexplain 7y ago
Don't you think it's insulting to tell a crowd of people that they are not intellectually stimulated by something? I don't find it intellectually stimulating either, but I wouldn't declare something so personal and subjective as factual ("it's not" vs "I don't think it is" or "it isn't for me"). It's antagonistic for no reason.
- jbob2000 7y ago
  This is a blog post about a twitter post about a picture. The whole article can be reduced to "tim cook good, trump bad, why in picture together?". HN cannot become reddit, we have to hold our bar higher than blogspam about politics.

microtherion 7y ago

Disappointing. Even beyond the question of malfeasance, there should be at least three policy areas I can think of off the top of my head that Cook should be opposed to: * Constant disruption of international manufacturing and trade relations with a chaotic assembly of policies (as Paul Krugman has pointed out, each individual policy you can, in principle, adjust to. But policies changing on a weekly level are impossible to plan for: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/05/opinion/trump-economy.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/05/opinion/trump-economy.htm...) * Anti-immigrant policies and rhetoric making it harder to hire from abroad (one can debate whether this benefits US workers—I would argue not—but it's certainly not in Apple's self interest). * Anti-LGBT policies and rhetoric. It's admirable that Cook consistently avoid making things about himself, but I think you ought to draw the line at collaborating with politicians who question one's very right to exist.

docdeek 7y ago
> It's admirable that Cook consistently avoid making things about himself, but I think you ought to draw the line at collaborating with politicians who question one's very right to exist. Does Trump really question the right of gay men like Cook to exist?
- microtherion 7y ago
  Maybe not "exist" in a narrow sense, as long as that existence does not include being employed, getting sheltered, adopting, receiving health care, or using a bathroom: https://transequality.org/the-discrimination-administration https://transequality.org/the-discrimination-administration https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/03/trump-attack-lgbt-rights-supreme-court https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/03/trump-attack-l...
  - docdeek 7y ago
    I guess my question was around gay Americans (like Cook) and not transgender Americans. I couldn’t recall too much that had changed for gay people under Trump and it seems like most of the impact in the articles you linked is on transgender people. Thanks for the links.

ablomen 7y ago

"A low moment in Apple’s proud history" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc.#Criticism_and_controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc.#Criticism_and_contr... I think Apple has done a lot worse in its "proud history" and is still doing it.

me_me_me 7y ago
It's as if corporations were guided by only one principle make money, a lot of money.

nabla9 7y ago

There has not been any change in how big tech companies deal with hard decisions. It's just people who ate PR, brand management and empty corporate speak about values getting getting deserved reality check. Without a doubt Tim Cook is very strongly socially liberal and anti Trump as long as it's does not hurt business opportunities or the future of Apple.

coldtea 7y ago
>Without a doubt Tim Cook is very strongly socially liberal and anti Trump as long as it's does not hurt business opportunities or the future of Apple. So in every way except those that don't suit him!

Grue3 7y ago

The main alternative seems to be Warren who openly proposes policies to dismantle Apple, among other companies. So it makes sense that he'd go all in to prevent her from being elected, it's his fiduciary duty after all.

333c 7y ago
> Warren who openly proposes policies to dismantle Apple I don't think this is true. Can you provide a source or quote from her?
- Grue3 7y ago
  https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/9/18257965/elizabeth-warren-break-up-apple-monopoly-antitrust https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/9/18257965/elizabeth-warren-... "Apple, you’ve got to break it apart from their App Store. It’s got to be one or the other. Either they run the platform or they play in the store. They don’t get to do both at the same time. So it’s the same notion. "
  - moretai 7y ago
    I don't get it. They created the app store. Developers are choosing to be part of Apple's ecosystem. The ecosystem for Android is absolutely terrible in comparison. Even free apps don't compare to Apple's free apps. That's the dumbest thing I've heard.
  - dariusj18 7y ago
    I wouldn't say that goes so far as to "dismantle" Apple, but it is definitely a proposition to affect perceived anti-competitive practices. I am not sure where I come down on such question, can you describe the benefits and drawbacks of Apple controlling the App Store?
  - 333c 7y ago
    This sounds like a push to allow a third-party App Store on the iPhone, or at least to allow iPhone users to install binaries not directly approved by Apple. That's not the same thing as dismantling Apple.

AlexTWithBeard 7y ago

But why do we think the real Cook is "left-wing" and the hypocritical one is "right-wing", not the other way round?