3 ms·

Here's a perverse aside, I suspect once you get much over $10k to hide, each 10x increase in the amount actually makes it easier, not harder. Reasoning: if you'

Here's a perverse aside, I suspect once you get much over $10k to hide, each 10x increase in the amount actually makes it easier, not harder. Reasoning: if you've got a small amount, transaction costs eat it up quickly and there's little incentive for others to get involved. If you've got $100m there are entire ecosystems of consultants offering to "help you put that money to work." Identifying the more "cooperative" ones willing to look the other way or sidestep certain barriers is probably not too hard. And with $100m to hide, if it costs $5m to get the job done, that may seem like a good deal. Back when I sold my startup to an F500 acquirer, within days of the acquisition hitting the news I started getting calls on my non-public, pretty closely guarded, mobile number from financial advisors, investment bankers and consultants. Everyone from Goldman Sachs on down. One of them pitched me on how I could "shelter" funds. I asked him how and he walked me through a byzantine scheme that seemed pretty shady - and I didn't even have anywhere close to "real" money compared to even a fledgling banana-republic despot.

vl 7y ago
> Identifying the more "cooperative" ones willing to look the other way or sidestep certain barriers is probably not too hard. No need to identify, just call Goldman Sachs or HSBC.
ct520 7y ago
150k+ range should get easier. Anything less fees still eat you up. At lower amount you basically be looking to mingle with entrepreneurs that have capital and are willing to exchange at a percent equal to their risk.
- MR4D 7y ago
  Less than 150K is cash or gold. Pretty easy to put coins in your pocket (or several pockets) with change. Carefully thought through, I'd bet you can put $100,000 into the change cup at the airport security line and nobody would have a clue. For instance, the Canadian Loonie [0], and the Canadian Gold Maple Leaf coin [1] have similar color the same face on one side. You can get more esoteric if you go with collector coins. Take a 1932 US Quarter, with a value up to $15,000. [2] I guarantee you could put ten of those in your pocket and nobody would notice! [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loonie#/media/File:Canadian_Dollar_-_obverse.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loonie#/media/File:Canadian_Do... [1] - https://www.walmart.com/ip/Canada-1-oz-Gold-Maple-Leaf-9999-Fine-Random-Year/740050376 https://www.walmart.com/ip/Canada-1-oz-Gold-Maple-Leaf-9999-... [2] - https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-explorer/washington-quarters-1932-1998-pscid-38/1932-25c-ms-coinid-15790 https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-explorer/washington-quarters-19...
  - turk73 7y ago
    I wouldn't put my wealth into something as weak as a "valuable quarter." WTF? Might better go buy a painting or something.
  - ct520 7y ago
    I will just say the government is petty. Your scenario seems easy but the percentage you lose converting coins in and out would add up. I have witnessed civil forfeitures in the amount of; 3k money orders, 5k money orders, 4.5k, 7k cash, 11k cash, 19k cash, 58k cash, 240k cash, assets, bank accounts. Never charged with a crime. They keep a closer eye on this then you would think and FYI TSA gets a bounty on cash collected along with local agency's in most counties. I like the coin idea though. I can ensure you its not the first time I have heard it and ironically the first solution Ive heard from a couple of engineers when broaching the subject.
cylinder 7y ago
Did you end up hiring any advisors / consultants / wealth managers etc? If so how did you choose? Did you go by a personal referral or did you go with one who cold called you?
- mrandish 7y ago
  Since finance isn't my strong suit, I evaluated some of them at length as well as reading some books and a lot online. In the end, I decided the fees such 'active managers' charge wouldn't be worth it for me. Instead, I got a good accountant to handle the tax side and set myself up at a large, well-known discount brokerage with low fees and put it all in a very typical diversified portfolio based on industry standards. My judgment was that you can either play for a special edge and pay the fees for that active management (while hoping you've chosen a Buffet vs a Madoff), or you can just bet on the overall market based on the risk profile and time horizon you're comfortable, save all the fees you can by letting it ride and not trading. My gut was that the best strategy was likely to be one of those two extremes and anything in-between would be less optimal. Since I acknowledge I don't have the experience or skill to tell a Buffett from a Madoff, I decided not the play that game and go the other way. It's been over 12 years now and the 'fire and forget' approach has worked out super well. By only rebalancing once a year I also saved a lot of time, mental bandwidth and stress. Admittedly, my market presence has coincided with a ten year bull market, however the long-term market backcasting data shows that buying a diversified portfolio of ultra-low fee funds and just holding has historically worked out best. Of course, it's somewhat sensitive to when you enter the market but IIRC if you hold for ten years, regardless of entry year, it outperformed active management in something like 96% of scenarios.
  - rdp36 7y ago
    You are a boglehead... https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Getting_started https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Getting_started
boring_twenties 7y ago
Did you ever figure out how these people all got a hold of your "private" phone number at the same time?
- mrandish 7y ago
  I don't know for sure but I suspected that it was because in this scenario landing a sale would be worth a lot of money, they were willing to pay a lot to get it. Recall the stories about phone company employees willing to take cash for access to info.

vl 7y ago

> Identifying the more "cooperative" ones willing to look the other way or sidestep certain barriers is probably not too hard. No need to identify, just call Goldman Sachs or HSBC.

ct520 7y ago

150k+ range should get easier. Anything less fees still eat you up. At lower amount you basically be looking to mingle with entrepreneurs that have capital and are willing to exchange at a percent equal to their risk.

MR4D 7y ago
Less than 150K is cash or gold. Pretty easy to put coins in your pocket (or several pockets) with change. Carefully thought through, I'd bet you can put $100,000 into the change cup at the airport security line and nobody would have a clue. For instance, the Canadian Loonie [0], and the Canadian Gold Maple Leaf coin [1] have similar color the same face on one side. You can get more esoteric if you go with collector coins. Take a 1932 US Quarter, with a value up to $15,000. [2] I guarantee you could put ten of those in your pocket and nobody would notice! [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loonie#/media/File:Canadian_Dollar_-_obverse.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loonie#/media/File:Canadian_Do... [1] - https://www.walmart.com/ip/Canada-1-oz-Gold-Maple-Leaf-9999-Fine-Random-Year/740050376 https://www.walmart.com/ip/Canada-1-oz-Gold-Maple-Leaf-9999-... [2] - https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-explorer/washington-quarters-1932-1998-pscid-38/1932-25c-ms-coinid-15790 https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-explorer/washington-quarters-19...
- turk73 7y ago
  I wouldn't put my wealth into something as weak as a "valuable quarter." WTF? Might better go buy a painting or something.
- ct520 7y ago
  I will just say the government is petty. Your scenario seems easy but the percentage you lose converting coins in and out would add up. I have witnessed civil forfeitures in the amount of; 3k money orders, 5k money orders, 4.5k, 7k cash, 11k cash, 19k cash, 58k cash, 240k cash, assets, bank accounts. Never charged with a crime. They keep a closer eye on this then you would think and FYI TSA gets a bounty on cash collected along with local agency's in most counties. I like the coin idea though. I can ensure you its not the first time I have heard it and ironically the first solution Ive heard from a couple of engineers when broaching the subject.

cylinder 7y ago

Did you end up hiring any advisors / consultants / wealth managers etc? If so how did you choose? Did you go by a personal referral or did you go with one who cold called you?

mrandish 7y ago
Since finance isn't my strong suit, I evaluated some of them at length as well as reading some books and a lot online. In the end, I decided the fees such 'active managers' charge wouldn't be worth it for me. Instead, I got a good accountant to handle the tax side and set myself up at a large, well-known discount brokerage with low fees and put it all in a very typical diversified portfolio based on industry standards. My judgment was that you can either play for a special edge and pay the fees for that active management (while hoping you've chosen a Buffet vs a Madoff), or you can just bet on the overall market based on the risk profile and time horizon you're comfortable, save all the fees you can by letting it ride and not trading. My gut was that the best strategy was likely to be one of those two extremes and anything in-between would be less optimal. Since I acknowledge I don't have the experience or skill to tell a Buffett from a Madoff, I decided not the play that game and go the other way. It's been over 12 years now and the 'fire and forget' approach has worked out super well. By only rebalancing once a year I also saved a lot of time, mental bandwidth and stress. Admittedly, my market presence has coincided with a ten year bull market, however the long-term market backcasting data shows that buying a diversified portfolio of ultra-low fee funds and just holding has historically worked out best. Of course, it's somewhat sensitive to when you enter the market but IIRC if you hold for ten years, regardless of entry year, it outperformed active management in something like 96% of scenarios.
- rdp36 7y ago
  You are a boglehead... https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Getting_started https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Getting_started

boring_twenties 7y ago

Did you ever figure out how these people all got a hold of your "private" phone number at the same time?

mrandish 7y ago
I don't know for sure but I suspected that it was because in this scenario landing a sale would be worth a lot of money, they were willing to pay a lot to get it. Recall the stories about phone company employees willing to take cash for access to info.