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I've tried explaining this to people who've never tried psychedelics. It is unlike any other substance I've ever tried (a lot of them, FWIW) in that it leaves y

I've tried explaining this to people who've never tried psychedelics. It is unlike any other substance I've ever tried (a lot of them, FWIW) in that it leaves you with lasting impressions. Some things I gleaned tripping have stuck with me to this day. It has changed me for the better.

LinuxBender 7y ago
Is it true that multiple people tripping on it at the same time, in different rooms, see the same things, events and even people in their trip? I've never tried any psychedelics, but if there were any truth to what I have heard, it would be a fascinating topic to study while monitoring brainwave activity.
- pfundstein 7y ago
  If you're asking whether DMT facilitates some kind of metaphysical communication, the answer is no. However, it's possible that a common environment or shared experience before or during the trip could seed similar or related experiences.
  - LinuxBender 7y ago
    The reason I ask is that Graham Hancock in an interview on Joe Rogan was saying that specifically Ayahuasca would allow people to see the same thing, exact same events, whereas DMT would not. Perhaps I misunderstood what he meant. He seemed to imply there was something intrinsically different about the way that was prepared and used traditionally and how it affected people. He seemed to imply it connected people.
    - gfody 7y ago
      Ayahuasca is typically consumed as part of a larger ritual ceremony that steers the participants towards a particular experience (depending on the Shaman you may be told to expect to encounter a certain entity named "Mescalito" for example.)
    - dwaltrip 7y ago
      There is no known mechanism by which DMT can connect people any differently than any other powerful experience that people have similarly had at some point.
- hcarvalhoalves 7y ago
  It could be suggestion / false memory. Once one participant tries to explain their experience in more concrete terms, the others start to fit the description into their own experience, and since we have similar prior experiences, they "see" the same things. Try this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5sk504Yc94 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5sk504Yc94
  - mike_hock 7y ago
    Poor presentation. I didn't have "sleep." So now what? "So we're gonna do a little experiment, memorize these words, then write them down, now I'm gonna read ... oh will you look at the time, it's been almost 2 minutes, that is we're almost at the end of your attention span, so here's the conclusion, bye." He could have at least read the (supposed) entire list, then tell us which ones weren't actually on the original list, or ask us which ones weren't. Or something.
- teh_infallible 7y ago
  Yes. This absolutely happens. What was strange for me was looking at clouds while tripping and pointing out all the things I saw in the clouds. My companion saw all the same things. There’s no way a sober person would have seen any of it.
  - moretai 7y ago
    Couldn't they just be following the leader, aka your thought?
  - dwaltrip 7y ago
    But of course this by no means that some sort of unknown communication between your brains was occuring. Having your perception altered in a similar way could simply cause people to see similar patterns.
peterwwillis 7y ago
> It has changed me for the better. Is that the old you saying that, or the new you?
- andrew_ 7y ago
  That's very meta. And an excellent philosophical question!
  - mettamage 7y ago
    Assuming you can remember the old you, I think in most cases it's fair to say that it's the new you that has enough knowledge of the old you. It's just like normal learning really, if you learn something, you become a new you that has knowledge of the old you and the new you might then say "what I learned right now was better." I know, I'm not the best at philosophy.
    - peterwwillis 7y ago
      If a drug significantly alters your brain to the point that you no longer think the way you did before, how do you know you changed for the better? Maybe the old you, the you that existed before you took the drug, would say this is not better. Maybe the new you only thinks you are now changed for the better. Maybe you didn't change at all! After all, do you even have a way to measure what has changed, and how much better or not-better you've gotten? Do you just feel better? Much like an old dinged-up ball bearing with new grease, it may squeak less, but is the ball actually any different than it was before? And in the context of how we feel about ourselves, which really matters? Is our perception of ourselves more important than reality? If so, the statement "It has changed me for the better" is really just saying "I feel better than before". Another way to look at the question "how do you know if the change made you 'better'": Say you took a drug, and suddenly you changed from being a liberal, to being a Nazi. (This happens a lot, not with drugs, but with events; an event happens, and suddenly someone turns from very liberal, to very far-right conservative) How do you know if the change has made you better? The new you is perfectly fine with Nazi-hood, and thinks you are better. But the old you would be pretty sure that the new you is the exact opposite of better. How can one tell if a change has made them better? Which version should we listen to? How do we define better, and how do we measure it?

LinuxBender 7y ago

Is it true that multiple people tripping on it at the same time, in different rooms, see the same things, events and even people in their trip? I've never tried any psychedelics, but if there were any truth to what I have heard, it would be a fascinating topic to study while monitoring brainwave activity.

pfundstein 7y ago
If you're asking whether DMT facilitates some kind of metaphysical communication, the answer is no. However, it's possible that a common environment or shared experience before or during the trip could seed similar or related experiences.
- LinuxBender 7y ago
  The reason I ask is that Graham Hancock in an interview on Joe Rogan was saying that specifically Ayahuasca would allow people to see the same thing, exact same events, whereas DMT would not. Perhaps I misunderstood what he meant. He seemed to imply there was something intrinsically different about the way that was prepared and used traditionally and how it affected people. He seemed to imply it connected people.
  - gfody 7y ago
    Ayahuasca is typically consumed as part of a larger ritual ceremony that steers the participants towards a particular experience (depending on the Shaman you may be told to expect to encounter a certain entity named "Mescalito" for example.)
  - dwaltrip 7y ago
    There is no known mechanism by which DMT can connect people any differently than any other powerful experience that people have similarly had at some point.
hcarvalhoalves 7y ago
It could be suggestion / false memory. Once one participant tries to explain their experience in more concrete terms, the others start to fit the description into their own experience, and since we have similar prior experiences, they "see" the same things. Try this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5sk504Yc94 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5sk504Yc94
- mike_hock 7y ago
  Poor presentation. I didn't have "sleep." So now what? "So we're gonna do a little experiment, memorize these words, then write them down, now I'm gonna read ... oh will you look at the time, it's been almost 2 minutes, that is we're almost at the end of your attention span, so here's the conclusion, bye." He could have at least read the (supposed) entire list, then tell us which ones weren't actually on the original list, or ask us which ones weren't. Or something.
teh_infallible 7y ago
Yes. This absolutely happens. What was strange for me was looking at clouds while tripping and pointing out all the things I saw in the clouds. My companion saw all the same things. There’s no way a sober person would have seen any of it.
- moretai 7y ago
  Couldn't they just be following the leader, aka your thought?
- dwaltrip 7y ago
  But of course this by no means that some sort of unknown communication between your brains was occuring. Having your perception altered in a similar way could simply cause people to see similar patterns.

peterwwillis 7y ago

> It has changed me for the better. Is that the old you saying that, or the new you?

andrew_ 7y ago
That's very meta. And an excellent philosophical question!
- mettamage 7y ago
  Assuming you can remember the old you, I think in most cases it's fair to say that it's the new you that has enough knowledge of the old you. It's just like normal learning really, if you learn something, you become a new you that has knowledge of the old you and the new you might then say "what I learned right now was better." I know, I'm not the best at philosophy.
  - peterwwillis 7y ago
    If a drug significantly alters your brain to the point that you no longer think the way you did before, how do you know you changed for the better? Maybe the old you, the you that existed before you took the drug, would say this is not better. Maybe the new you only thinks you are now changed for the better. Maybe you didn't change at all! After all, do you even have a way to measure what has changed, and how much better or not-better you've gotten? Do you just feel better? Much like an old dinged-up ball bearing with new grease, it may squeak less, but is the ball actually any different than it was before? And in the context of how we feel about ourselves, which really matters? Is our perception of ourselves more important than reality? If so, the statement "It has changed me for the better" is really just saying "I feel better than before". Another way to look at the question "how do you know if the change made you 'better'": Say you took a drug, and suddenly you changed from being a liberal, to being a Nazi. (This happens a lot, not with drugs, but with events; an event happens, and suddenly someone turns from very liberal, to very far-right conservative) How do you know if the change has made you better? The new you is perfectly fine with Nazi-hood, and thinks you are better. But the old you would be pretty sure that the new you is the exact opposite of better. How can one tell if a change has made them better? Which version should we listen to? How do we define better, and how do we measure it?