6 ms·

> The present study’s findings significantly advance our understanding of the brain basis of one of the most unusual and intense altered states of consciousness

> The present study’s findings significantly advance our understanding of the brain basis of one of the most unusual and intense altered states of consciousness known – previously likened to dreaming... This study does not "find that DMT produces a dream-like state"; that was already well established. This study identifies the subtle brain activity that differentiates the hallucinations from dreaming. > This experience is often characterized by a sense of entering into an entirely ‘other’ ... dimension. It is not uncommon for people to describe encounters with sentient ‘entities’ or ‘presences’ within this perceived other world and for the experience to subsequently challenge beliefs about the nature of reality and consciousness. These effects are what makes this drug so interesting and differentiates it from most hallucinogens and dreaming. It doesn't just leave you with strange memories you know are nonsense. It creates experiences that feel real and invokes thoughts that cause you to question your understanding of reality.

noodle_face_ 7y ago
I've tried explaining this to people who've never tried psychedelics. It is unlike any other substance I've ever tried (a lot of them, FWIW) in that it leaves you with lasting impressions. Some things I gleaned tripping have stuck with me to this day. It has changed me for the better.
- LinuxBender 7y ago
  Is it true that multiple people tripping on it at the same time, in different rooms, see the same things, events and even people in their trip? I've never tried any psychedelics, but if there were any truth to what I have heard, it would be a fascinating topic to study while monitoring brainwave activity.
  - pfundstein 7y ago
    If you're asking whether DMT facilitates some kind of metaphysical communication, the answer is no. However, it's possible that a common environment or shared experience before or during the trip could seed similar or related experiences.
    - LinuxBender 7y ago
      The reason I ask is that Graham Hancock in an interview on Joe Rogan was saying that specifically Ayahuasca would allow people to see the same thing, exact same events, whereas DMT would not. Perhaps I misunderstood what he meant. He seemed to imply there was something intrinsically different about the way that was prepared and used traditionally and how it affected people. He seemed to imply it connected people.
      - gfody 7y ago
        Ayahuasca is typically consumed as part of a larger ritual ceremony that steers the participants towards a particular experience (depending on the Shaman you may be told to expect to encounter a certain entity named "Mescalito" for example.)
      - dwaltrip 7y ago
        There is no known mechanism by which DMT can connect people any differently than any other powerful experience that people have similarly had at some point.
  - hcarvalhoalves 7y ago
    It could be suggestion / false memory. Once one participant tries to explain their experience in more concrete terms, the others start to fit the description into their own experience, and since we have similar prior experiences, they "see" the same things. Try this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5sk504Yc94 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5sk504Yc94
    - mike_hock 7y ago
      Poor presentation. I didn't have "sleep." So now what? "So we're gonna do a little experiment, memorize these words, then write them down, now I'm gonna read ... oh will you look at the time, it's been almost 2 minutes, that is we're almost at the end of your attention span, so here's the conclusion, bye." He could have at least read the (supposed) entire list, then tell us which ones weren't actually on the original list, or ask us which ones weren't. Or something.
  - teh_infallible 7y ago
    Yes. This absolutely happens. What was strange for me was looking at clouds while tripping and pointing out all the things I saw in the clouds. My companion saw all the same things. There’s no way a sober person would have seen any of it.
    - moretai 7y ago
      Couldn't they just be following the leader, aka your thought?
    - dwaltrip 7y ago
      But of course this by no means that some sort of unknown communication between your brains was occuring. Having your perception altered in a similar way could simply cause people to see similar patterns.
- peterwwillis 7y ago
  > It has changed me for the better. Is that the old you saying that, or the new you?
  - andrew_ 7y ago
    That's very meta. And an excellent philosophical question!
    - mettamage 7y ago
      Assuming you can remember the old you, I think in most cases it's fair to say that it's the new you that has enough knowledge of the old you. It's just like normal learning really, if you learn something, you become a new you that has knowledge of the old you and the new you might then say "what I learned right now was better." I know, I'm not the best at philosophy.
      - peterwwillis 7y ago
        If a drug significantly alters your brain to the point that you no longer think the way you did before, how do you know you changed for the better? Maybe the old you, the you that existed before you took the drug, would say this is not better. Maybe the new you only thinks you are now changed for the better. Maybe you didn't change at all! After all, do you even have a way to measure what has changed, and how much better or not-better you've gotten? Do you just feel better? Much like an old dinged-up ball bearing with new grease, it may squeak less, but is the ball actually any different than it was before? And in the context of how we feel about ourselves, which really matters? Is our perception of ourselves more important than reality? If so, the statement "It has changed me for the better" is really just saying "I feel better than before". Another way to look at the question "how do you know if the change made you 'better'": Say you took a drug, and suddenly you changed from being a liberal, to being a Nazi. (This happens a lot, not with drugs, but with events; an event happens, and suddenly someone turns from very liberal, to very far-right conservative) How do you know if the change has made you better? The new you is perfectly fine with Nazi-hood, and thinks you are better. But the old you would be pretty sure that the new you is the exact opposite of better. How can one tell if a change has made them better? Which version should we listen to? How do we define better, and how do we measure it?
shawnz 7y ago
Contrary to popular opinion I haven't found DMT to be that much different than any other psychedelic drug when comparing equivalent doses. Sure it's true that while high on the drug it creates experiences that feel real, but that's true of dreaming too, isn't it? It's not obvious that it wasn't real until it's over. And similarly I have had the same feeling from high doses of "plain old" psychedelics.
- vokep 7y ago
  The difference is rarely do people wake from a dream and feel they ought to change their life in major ways as a result. Curious what "high" doses of "plain old psychedelics" might be? I've never gone further than 200ug LSD.
  - golergka 7y ago
    Highest I've ever gone was 500ug LSD, and still, it was a more intense experience of the same "quality", not something completely different.
  - thrax 7y ago
    Check out erowid if you want some high dosage lsd stories. In the early 90s I encountered some "mop up" doses that were claimed to be in the 3000 mic range. I tried them twice.. first time during the Rodney king riots in SF (took half a mopup, started out really fun then devolved into a nightmare. Hid in the garden of a high end restaurant, literally inside a bush, watching the mayhem unfold on market Street.. Second time was while backpacking in pt Reyes and that was the best, most transformative drug experience I've ever had. I talked to a mushroom and learned a lot about my self and humanities relationship to nature.. But, at peak, I was completely disassociated. Basically blind/deaf to external reality for about 3-4 hours. I was with 3 other people.. and I think we were just rolling around in a meadow the whole time. Eventually we somehow ended up at the ocean, and the sunset brought us all to tears. In the 90s, the most commonly available doses here on the street were about 150 mics, and cost around 2 to 6 bucks. And the comedown was ugly. I've been told that cheap/old lsd, degrades into strychnine.. which is why the comedown is so harsh. On the high dose ones I did, the comedown was completely different. Nowadays I stick to the occasional couple of shrooms or a hit of molly once or twice a year. I think today I would have too much emotional baggage and ties to my consentual shared hallucination with humanity to do psychs that powerful again.
hypewatch 7y ago
DMT is also naturally released at the time of death. These experiences sound similar to how the afterlife is described by many religions.
- asguy 7y ago
  What’s your source for this? I hear this often, but I’ve never seen any study that has measured DMT release at death.
- Valmar 7y ago
  This was based on a misconception that was later debunked. DMT is not known to be produced by the human brain. And even if it were... the large amounts of monoamine oxidase naturally present in the blood would all too quickly break it all down. The only way too get enough DMT to temporarily overwhelm the MAO is through exogenous sources.
  - stelonix 7y ago
    The type of MAO enzyme that breaks down triptamines is not present on blood, AFAIK.
dang 7y ago
Ok, we've changed the title above from "Ayahuasca alters brain waves to produce waking dream-like state, study finds" to that of the article.

noodle_face_ 7y ago

I've tried explaining this to people who've never tried psychedelics. It is unlike any other substance I've ever tried (a lot of them, FWIW) in that it leaves you with lasting impressions. Some things I gleaned tripping have stuck with me to this day. It has changed me for the better.

LinuxBender 7y ago
Is it true that multiple people tripping on it at the same time, in different rooms, see the same things, events and even people in their trip? I've never tried any psychedelics, but if there were any truth to what I have heard, it would be a fascinating topic to study while monitoring brainwave activity.
- pfundstein 7y ago
  If you're asking whether DMT facilitates some kind of metaphysical communication, the answer is no. However, it's possible that a common environment or shared experience before or during the trip could seed similar or related experiences.
  - LinuxBender 7y ago
    The reason I ask is that Graham Hancock in an interview on Joe Rogan was saying that specifically Ayahuasca would allow people to see the same thing, exact same events, whereas DMT would not. Perhaps I misunderstood what he meant. He seemed to imply there was something intrinsically different about the way that was prepared and used traditionally and how it affected people. He seemed to imply it connected people.
    - gfody 7y ago
      Ayahuasca is typically consumed as part of a larger ritual ceremony that steers the participants towards a particular experience (depending on the Shaman you may be told to expect to encounter a certain entity named "Mescalito" for example.)
    - dwaltrip 7y ago
      There is no known mechanism by which DMT can connect people any differently than any other powerful experience that people have similarly had at some point.
- hcarvalhoalves 7y ago
  It could be suggestion / false memory. Once one participant tries to explain their experience in more concrete terms, the others start to fit the description into their own experience, and since we have similar prior experiences, they "see" the same things. Try this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5sk504Yc94 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5sk504Yc94
  - mike_hock 7y ago
    Poor presentation. I didn't have "sleep." So now what? "So we're gonna do a little experiment, memorize these words, then write them down, now I'm gonna read ... oh will you look at the time, it's been almost 2 minutes, that is we're almost at the end of your attention span, so here's the conclusion, bye." He could have at least read the (supposed) entire list, then tell us which ones weren't actually on the original list, or ask us which ones weren't. Or something.
- teh_infallible 7y ago
  Yes. This absolutely happens. What was strange for me was looking at clouds while tripping and pointing out all the things I saw in the clouds. My companion saw all the same things. There’s no way a sober person would have seen any of it.
  - moretai 7y ago
    Couldn't they just be following the leader, aka your thought?
  - dwaltrip 7y ago
    But of course this by no means that some sort of unknown communication between your brains was occuring. Having your perception altered in a similar way could simply cause people to see similar patterns.
peterwwillis 7y ago
> It has changed me for the better. Is that the old you saying that, or the new you?
- andrew_ 7y ago
  That's very meta. And an excellent philosophical question!
  - mettamage 7y ago
    Assuming you can remember the old you, I think in most cases it's fair to say that it's the new you that has enough knowledge of the old you. It's just like normal learning really, if you learn something, you become a new you that has knowledge of the old you and the new you might then say "what I learned right now was better." I know, I'm not the best at philosophy.
    - peterwwillis 7y ago
      If a drug significantly alters your brain to the point that you no longer think the way you did before, how do you know you changed for the better? Maybe the old you, the you that existed before you took the drug, would say this is not better. Maybe the new you only thinks you are now changed for the better. Maybe you didn't change at all! After all, do you even have a way to measure what has changed, and how much better or not-better you've gotten? Do you just feel better? Much like an old dinged-up ball bearing with new grease, it may squeak less, but is the ball actually any different than it was before? And in the context of how we feel about ourselves, which really matters? Is our perception of ourselves more important than reality? If so, the statement "It has changed me for the better" is really just saying "I feel better than before". Another way to look at the question "how do you know if the change made you 'better'": Say you took a drug, and suddenly you changed from being a liberal, to being a Nazi. (This happens a lot, not with drugs, but with events; an event happens, and suddenly someone turns from very liberal, to very far-right conservative) How do you know if the change has made you better? The new you is perfectly fine with Nazi-hood, and thinks you are better. But the old you would be pretty sure that the new you is the exact opposite of better. How can one tell if a change has made them better? Which version should we listen to? How do we define better, and how do we measure it?

shawnz 7y ago

Contrary to popular opinion I haven't found DMT to be that much different than any other psychedelic drug when comparing equivalent doses. Sure it's true that while high on the drug it creates experiences that feel real, but that's true of dreaming too, isn't it? It's not obvious that it wasn't real until it's over. And similarly I have had the same feeling from high doses of "plain old" psychedelics.

vokep 7y ago
The difference is rarely do people wake from a dream and feel they ought to change their life in major ways as a result. Curious what "high" doses of "plain old psychedelics" might be? I've never gone further than 200ug LSD.
- golergka 7y ago
  Highest I've ever gone was 500ug LSD, and still, it was a more intense experience of the same "quality", not something completely different.
- thrax 7y ago
  Check out erowid if you want some high dosage lsd stories. In the early 90s I encountered some "mop up" doses that were claimed to be in the 3000 mic range. I tried them twice.. first time during the Rodney king riots in SF (took half a mopup, started out really fun then devolved into a nightmare. Hid in the garden of a high end restaurant, literally inside a bush, watching the mayhem unfold on market Street.. Second time was while backpacking in pt Reyes and that was the best, most transformative drug experience I've ever had. I talked to a mushroom and learned a lot about my self and humanities relationship to nature.. But, at peak, I was completely disassociated. Basically blind/deaf to external reality for about 3-4 hours. I was with 3 other people.. and I think we were just rolling around in a meadow the whole time. Eventually we somehow ended up at the ocean, and the sunset brought us all to tears. In the 90s, the most commonly available doses here on the street were about 150 mics, and cost around 2 to 6 bucks. And the comedown was ugly. I've been told that cheap/old lsd, degrades into strychnine.. which is why the comedown is so harsh. On the high dose ones I did, the comedown was completely different. Nowadays I stick to the occasional couple of shrooms or a hit of molly once or twice a year. I think today I would have too much emotional baggage and ties to my consentual shared hallucination with humanity to do psychs that powerful again.

hypewatch 7y ago

DMT is also naturally released at the time of death. These experiences sound similar to how the afterlife is described by many religions.

asguy 7y ago
What’s your source for this? I hear this often, but I’ve never seen any study that has measured DMT release at death.
Valmar 7y ago
This was based on a misconception that was later debunked. DMT is not known to be produced by the human brain. And even if it were... the large amounts of monoamine oxidase naturally present in the blood would all too quickly break it all down. The only way too get enough DMT to temporarily overwhelm the MAO is through exogenous sources.
- stelonix 7y ago
  The type of MAO enzyme that breaks down triptamines is not present on blood, AFAIK.

dang 7y ago

Ok, we've changed the title above from "Ayahuasca alters brain waves to produce waking dream-like state, study finds" to that of the article.