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> Why did Apple decide to build its own maps application rather than continue to use Google Maps to power the maps applications on iPhones? I don't get it: why

> Why did Apple decide to build its own maps application rather than continue to use Google Maps to power the maps applications on iPhones? I don't get it: why hassle them over their underdog competitor? Laud them for daring to compete against the market leader. Focus the argument about the walled garden and right-to-repair instead. Apple and Google should license the ability to create third-party app stores, or be compelled to do so. Perhaps that could come with terms on auditing apps and a process for resolving differences of opinion on whether an app is legitimate/safe/acceptable (with a standard like "poses a risk to device or owner's privacy/data").

riazrizvi 7y ago
A fair platform provider would not compete with the businesses on its platform, they would be an unbiased referee. Platform providers are able to snoop on the behavior of their users, unlike any other businesses. So they have an unfair advantage when they compete. If we continue to allow platform providers to publish products on their own platforms we are moving away from fair market competition. Business platforms, like investment exchanges, should be regulated.
- zepto 7y ago
  So Apple should develop the OS with no experience at all of developing applications? That simply won’t work.
izacus 7y ago
> I don't get it: why hassle them over their underdog competitor? Laud them for daring to compete against the market leader. Focus the argument about the walled garden and right-to-repair instead. Because they gave themselves an edge when competing against Google by not allowing Maps all of the same capabilities from start. And to do that, they abused their OS and store to block GMaps from having same capabilities as AMaps. Even today, GMaps isn't allowed to be the default maps provider. No customer wishing for a healthy free market should approve of this.
- scarface74 7y ago
  That’s not what happened. Google didn’t allow Apple to use turn by turn directions without Apple giving Google more telemetry from its users.
  - greggman2 7y ago
    But now Apple is disadvantages competing maps apps by making all maps links open in Apple Maps. It sucks. As a Google Maps user I have tons of labels and bookmarks in Google Maps. When I click a maps link in any iOS app I get shuffled over to Apple Maps and then have to try to find a way to manually copy the address over to Google Maps so I can add a bookmark and access it in other places.
  - thu2111 7y ago
    That's also not what happened. I was on the Google Maps team at the time and the issues were far deeper and more problematic than "not getting telemetry" which was at any rate, not an issue - what sort of "telemetry" do you think a Maps app could report that isn't search queries or tile requests? Maps apps are just rendering frontends for giant server farms after all. Claiming it's about telemetry is just Apple propaganda. The real problem was that Apple wrote the Google Maps app, and wasn't willing to cooperate with Google on it at all. Literally, they demanded some basic protocol specs and then wrote the app themselves. This led to several problems: 1. They refused to tell Google what changes they were making to their app, which led to: 2. Repeatedly screwing up their implementation in ways that very seriously threatened the stability of the entire Google Maps services (think: slamming the servers with way more traffic than any reasonable implementation should). Apple love to claim the best results arise from integrating hardware, software and services. Well, guess what, that logic works in both directions: by preventing even basic cooperation between the Apple team writing the GMaps app, and the rest of the GMaps team, they created massive problems. Especially because at this time Apple engineering had no serious experience with large online services ... MobileMe was a disaster ... and so they kept making basic mistakes no Google team would ever make. They also refused Google's help to stop making them. 3. The GMaps team was much larger and better funded than the iOS team, so iOS rapidly fell behind the featureset available on Android and the web. Google attempted to fix this by writing their own GMaps app, which Apple then blocked on the grounds it was competitive with their own (this was back when they had this policy). Basically the relationship was antagonistic from the start from Apple's side, and rapidly spiralled downhill as Google's own services accelerated away from what Apple was capable of. The whole Apple schtick that Google was desperate to violate privacy or get telemetry is just an advertising attack angle: it shouldn't work on the sort of people who read Hacker News. Apple Maps is architecturally identical to Google Maps, after all.
pkaye 7y ago
> Apple and Google should license the ability to create third-party app stores... I though Google already allows third-party app stores?
- kcolford 7y ago
  Yes, but they can't auto update without root. A feature that's virtually essential when you're managing a ton of apps.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

riazrizvi 7y ago

A fair platform provider would not compete with the businesses on its platform, they would be an unbiased referee. Platform providers are able to snoop on the behavior of their users, unlike any other businesses. So they have an unfair advantage when they compete. If we continue to allow platform providers to publish products on their own platforms we are moving away from fair market competition. Business platforms, like investment exchanges, should be regulated.

zepto 7y ago
So Apple should develop the OS with no experience at all of developing applications? That simply won’t work.

izacus 7y ago

> I don't get it: why hassle them over their underdog competitor? Laud them for daring to compete against the market leader. Focus the argument about the walled garden and right-to-repair instead. Because they gave themselves an edge when competing against Google by not allowing Maps all of the same capabilities from start. And to do that, they abused their OS and store to block GMaps from having same capabilities as AMaps. Even today, GMaps isn't allowed to be the default maps provider. No customer wishing for a healthy free market should approve of this.

scarface74 7y ago
That’s not what happened. Google didn’t allow Apple to use turn by turn directions without Apple giving Google more telemetry from its users.
- greggman2 7y ago
  But now Apple is disadvantages competing maps apps by making all maps links open in Apple Maps. It sucks. As a Google Maps user I have tons of labels and bookmarks in Google Maps. When I click a maps link in any iOS app I get shuffled over to Apple Maps and then have to try to find a way to manually copy the address over to Google Maps so I can add a bookmark and access it in other places.
- thu2111 7y ago
  That's also not what happened. I was on the Google Maps team at the time and the issues were far deeper and more problematic than "not getting telemetry" which was at any rate, not an issue - what sort of "telemetry" do you think a Maps app could report that isn't search queries or tile requests? Maps apps are just rendering frontends for giant server farms after all. Claiming it's about telemetry is just Apple propaganda. The real problem was that Apple wrote the Google Maps app, and wasn't willing to cooperate with Google on it at all. Literally, they demanded some basic protocol specs and then wrote the app themselves. This led to several problems: 1. They refused to tell Google what changes they were making to their app, which led to: 2. Repeatedly screwing up their implementation in ways that very seriously threatened the stability of the entire Google Maps services (think: slamming the servers with way more traffic than any reasonable implementation should). Apple love to claim the best results arise from integrating hardware, software and services. Well, guess what, that logic works in both directions: by preventing even basic cooperation between the Apple team writing the GMaps app, and the rest of the GMaps team, they created massive problems. Especially because at this time Apple engineering had no serious experience with large online services ... MobileMe was a disaster ... and so they kept making basic mistakes no Google team would ever make. They also refused Google's help to stop making them. 3. The GMaps team was much larger and better funded than the iOS team, so iOS rapidly fell behind the featureset available on Android and the web. Google attempted to fix this by writing their own GMaps app, which Apple then blocked on the grounds it was competitive with their own (this was back when they had this policy). Basically the relationship was antagonistic from the start from Apple's side, and rapidly spiralled downhill as Google's own services accelerated away from what Apple was capable of. The whole Apple schtick that Google was desperate to violate privacy or get telemetry is just an advertising attack angle: it shouldn't work on the sort of people who read Hacker News. Apple Maps is architecturally identical to Google Maps, after all.

pkaye 7y ago

> Apple and Google should license the ability to create third-party app stores... I though Google already allows third-party app stores?

kcolford 7y ago
Yes, but they can't auto update without root. A feature that's virtually essential when you're managing a ton of apps.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]