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I've been working on this since I noticed it in myself a few years back. It's really difficult because I'm the "problem-solver," but I'm also the person that pe

I've been working on this since I noticed it in myself a few years back. It's really difficult because I'm the "problem-solver," but I'm also the person that people want to vent to. So I've come to realize - After a friend/coworker shares something that they're sad/angry about, my standard MO is: 1) Say something like "Wow, that must really feel terrible. I'm sorry to hear that!" (I always feel the need to add more to this statement, but it's better off said with a light touch and not heavy-handed.) Then, 2) "I feel like I was in a similar situation a few months ago when..." Important rule about this step - this statement is NOT to be a 1-upper. You're not saying this to proclaim that your situation from the past is more significant/worse than their situation. You're saying this because it helps your friend/colleague understand that they're not alone in how they're feeling, and their feelings are (generally-speaking) justified. Also - You don't talk about what you did to solve the issue. You talk about how you felt, etc. Be vulnerable, be open, and the person venting to you will respond similarly. Finally, 3) Ask "So what are you gonna do about it?" This kinda turns its head on the status-quo. Usually, this is the time you start explaining "Well here's what I did in my situation!" But that's not what you want here. Instead, you're asking the person if they've thought of a plan to tackle the issue. If you've established a "safe space" to discuss the topic, they feel more open about sharing their plan to resolve the problem, even if they don't have a plan and have to come up with it on the spot. Then, more likely than not, they'll ask "What do you think?" At this point, you're free to let your problem-solving self run wild, assuming that you don't then consider your friend/colleague a "broken piece of code begging to be fixed."

pjanoman 7y ago
If a friend/coworker shares something that they're sad/angry about, sometimes they're not asking for advice. Sometimes they just want someone to relate to them and their struggles. #3 can sometimes be a detractor because, once again, you need to wait for them to ask for advice and not just come in with your own advice/assuming that they are even asking for help. Venting emotions != Asking for help
- ljm 7y ago
  Yes and no. When you ask “so what do you want to do about it?”, you get no as an answer. “I was just venting man” is a legit response, so it’s all fair enough. You can take it from there. Let them vent, you can only vent so much.
  - hippich 7y ago
    I am not sure it is that simple. When someone vents off to me - I can't ignore it, I am no psychopath. This is especially hard with people whom I am close with. Having a solution is what gives my brain to "check it off", which I equally need as they need to vent. What should I do? To tell fuck off with their complains if they are not seeking a solution? (done that to some, they still do not understand) Just keep soaking it in until Ill get wired and depressed? Get drunk to switch off executive function completelly and engage into feelings discussion? Anything else?
    - PakG1 7y ago
      I find that I am like most people in these threads and find it difficult to not provide advice on how to solve unsolved problems in other people's lives. That being said, when more "socially normal" people are the recipients of other people's venting, I don't imagine that they are able to ignore it because they are psychopaths. In fact, I imagine many of them aren't actually ignoring it. I imagine that many of them feel sympathy, some maybe even empathy, but they understand what we don't, namely that unsolicited advice makes it worse. More "socially normal" people understand how to commiserate without providing unsolicited advice, and they understand that such commiseration is helpful. Like I've told my wife multiple times, if I'm venting, I want solutions. If someone isn't able to give me advice, they're not helpful. But I've realized that more "socially normal" people aren't like this. They often don't care about the solution, they just want to be heard and understood. I don't get it, it boggles my mind to no end. But I've come to accept that it's true (though I often forget). My wife doesn't care for my solutions if she doesn't ask for them. She'll figure it out herself. She just needs emotional support. Again, emotional support is useless to me. It's idiotic. I need solutions, not emotional support. But other people want the opposite. Now, how to provide that emotional support... without being flippant, condescending, insincere, etc... is yet another conundrum... partly due to my foundational believe that emotional support by itself is useless. How can I be sincere about something I don't believe to be effective? Anyway, my point is... I don't think others are psychopaths... they're just more emotionally intelligent as to what other people are actually hoping to get when in need.
mrmonkeyman 7y ago
2 and 3 suck, do more of 1. Especially 2, don't bring up your own experiences in a reflexive manner like this. Only do it when it absolutely makes sense i.e. it is requested explicitly. "I lost my dad" - "Sorry for your loss." "Thanks, I.." - "My father went 10 years ago and built boats for a living and yada yada ...." "Sigh..." This is. So. Annoying.
ljm 7y ago
I’m a coach in training and question number 3 there is a powerful question. That’s a really great question to ask because you’re not getting involved in the topic, you’re not giving them ideas, and you’re not working through it for them. The others are too nuanced to easily explain, but “what are you going to do with that,” is a fucking fantastic question when a friend confides in you. You’re right that this requires some level of safety, but you are making sure they are still self-empowered. The worst thing you can do is remove that agency and try to solve someone’s problems for them.
- hysan 7y ago
  This is a great teaching technique as well. It opens the door for students to realize that they can attempt to solve a problem on their own. You also gain more insight into what roadblocks they are running into and what to really focus on. They also get to practice conveying their thoughts and in some cases, this builds confidence as they might find that they were much closer to the answer than they thought.
  - ljm 7y ago
    This is classic mentoring. The difference between mentoring and coaching is that as a mentor you will offer answers. As a coach, you will offer none. In both cases you’re giving them the ropes but in the first you’re holding their hand around them. And as a teacher, you are telling them.
- hawaiianbrah 7y ago
  What are you a coach in training for?
  - ljm 7y ago
    I think I want to do life coaching but more often than not I work with relationships. Relationships are a strong part of life. I’m a programmer but I don’t enjoy writing code. I enjoy helping people with themselves. So I strongly advocate for anyone who wants a way in and I choos to use my coaching skills to be a cheerleader for new and existing talent. But to answer your question, I’m a coach in training for coaching.
dustingetz 7y ago
I think you can skip #2, if you're trying to help then this is about them, it's not about you, so probably the word "I" can be removed from your vocabulary for the rest of the conversation. Algorithm for nerds is: ask questions, repeat back what you heard. Also works in sales!
- beckingz 7y ago
  If you've actually had a similar experience, that can be validating to share.
- RussianCow 7y ago
  It depends on the context. If you have had a very similar experience, it can help to share that they are not alone in their feelings. But reaching for straws to try to draw a similarity where none exists isn't helpful.
bort-simpson 7y ago
What I struggle with after #3 is when I get the response "I don't know". At that point I really don't know what the next steps are beside trying to come up with solutions (and that doesn't work out too well sometimes).
- danenania 7y ago
  I think it’s often a less is more kind of thing. If the goal is to listen, not offer advice or solutions, just acknowledging the answer is enough: “Gotcha”, or “I see”, or “Yeah it’s a tough one”. Then leave them the space to continue if they want to. Like many here, this has not been natural for me, but one thing I’ve been impressed by is how much more people will be encouraged to talk if you just give them short answers that show you’re listening and leave the ball in their court vs. taking over the conversation at every opportunity. Sometimes you just have to let the silence hang for a bit.
- Swizec 7y ago
  That’s when you share this story from amanda palmer https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/6679223-a-farmer-is-sitting-on-his-porch-in-a-chair https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/6679223-a-farmer-is-sitting... A farmer is sitting on his porch in a chair, hanging out. A friend walks up to the porch to say hello, and hears an awful yelping, squealing sound coming from inside the house. "What's that terrifyin' sound?" asks the friend. "It's my dog," said the farmer. "He's sittin' on a nail." "Why doesn't he just sit up and get off it?" asks the friend. The farmer deliberates on this and replies: "Doesn't hurt enough yet.
  - bort-simpson 7y ago
    I love this quote. Thanks for sharing.
galaxyLogic 7y ago
Isn't that much what psychiatrists do, they guide you by asking questions?
Nition 7y ago
The trouble I have with #1 is when someone tells me their problem and they don't want help with it, now I have a new problem to worry about, and worse, I can't take action to solve it because the problem isn't mine. I guess the trick is not worrying about other people's problems. But... I dunno, I just don't like unsolved problems hanging around.
- lsiebert 7y ago
  You can always set a boundary with friends not to tell you their problems. "Hey, I appreciate you wanting to share with me, but I'm probably not the right person to just talk about problems with. I'm happy to listen if there's something I can do to help or if you want advice though!"
- jmmarco 7y ago
  Sometimes people just want to talk, they want to be heard; occasionally bouncing ideas or thoughts on somebody can help come to a realization, or even a solution to a particular problem.
- galangalalgol 7y ago
  The answer is to stop talking to normies. We'll make a virus some day that eliminates the nonspectrum and all be better off as a species. Sorry, I don't actually want that, I'm just venting. Wow that actually helped, maybe the normies are on to something.
idealstingray 7y ago
I really like this script! My neat trick is to directly ask "Do you just want to vent? Or do you want my advice?" If said in a gentle and non-sarcastic tone, this works pretty well on other engineers with meh social skills. I don't think I know any socially competent people to test it on.
exclusiv 7y ago
I'm the same. A problem solver that people bring information to and also vent to. I have no problem making decisions and I consider my instincts to be very good which can make it worse when I have a solution so soon. I've been working on being a better listener, getting more info and considering more angles and perspectives. You make some great points above which is what I try to follow too after doing it poorly in the past. It's especially important if you're married. :) My wife almost always wants my perspective but she wants to be listened to first and to vent on occasion. And also to ensure I have all the information first before I weigh in. She wants an advisor not a magic 8 ball.
FaiderX 7y ago
thank you for your advice, they were really helpful to me

pjanoman 7y ago

If a friend/coworker shares something that they're sad/angry about, sometimes they're not asking for advice. Sometimes they just want someone to relate to them and their struggles. #3 can sometimes be a detractor because, once again, you need to wait for them to ask for advice and not just come in with your own advice/assuming that they are even asking for help. Venting emotions != Asking for help

ljm 7y ago
Yes and no. When you ask “so what do you want to do about it?”, you get no as an answer. “I was just venting man” is a legit response, so it’s all fair enough. You can take it from there. Let them vent, you can only vent so much.
- hippich 7y ago
  I am not sure it is that simple. When someone vents off to me - I can't ignore it, I am no psychopath. This is especially hard with people whom I am close with. Having a solution is what gives my brain to "check it off", which I equally need as they need to vent. What should I do? To tell fuck off with their complains if they are not seeking a solution? (done that to some, they still do not understand) Just keep soaking it in until Ill get wired and depressed? Get drunk to switch off executive function completelly and engage into feelings discussion? Anything else?
  - PakG1 7y ago
    I find that I am like most people in these threads and find it difficult to not provide advice on how to solve unsolved problems in other people's lives. That being said, when more "socially normal" people are the recipients of other people's venting, I don't imagine that they are able to ignore it because they are psychopaths. In fact, I imagine many of them aren't actually ignoring it. I imagine that many of them feel sympathy, some maybe even empathy, but they understand what we don't, namely that unsolicited advice makes it worse. More "socially normal" people understand how to commiserate without providing unsolicited advice, and they understand that such commiseration is helpful. Like I've told my wife multiple times, if I'm venting, I want solutions. If someone isn't able to give me advice, they're not helpful. But I've realized that more "socially normal" people aren't like this. They often don't care about the solution, they just want to be heard and understood. I don't get it, it boggles my mind to no end. But I've come to accept that it's true (though I often forget). My wife doesn't care for my solutions if she doesn't ask for them. She'll figure it out herself. She just needs emotional support. Again, emotional support is useless to me. It's idiotic. I need solutions, not emotional support. But other people want the opposite. Now, how to provide that emotional support... without being flippant, condescending, insincere, etc... is yet another conundrum... partly due to my foundational believe that emotional support by itself is useless. How can I be sincere about something I don't believe to be effective? Anyway, my point is... I don't think others are psychopaths... they're just more emotionally intelligent as to what other people are actually hoping to get when in need.

mrmonkeyman 7y ago

2 and 3 suck, do more of 1. Especially 2, don't bring up your own experiences in a reflexive manner like this. Only do it when it absolutely makes sense i.e. it is requested explicitly. "I lost my dad" - "Sorry for your loss." "Thanks, I.." - "My father went 10 years ago and built boats for a living and yada yada ...." "Sigh..." This is. So. Annoying.

ljm 7y ago

I’m a coach in training and question number 3 there is a powerful question. That’s a really great question to ask because you’re not getting involved in the topic, you’re not giving them ideas, and you’re not working through it for them. The others are too nuanced to easily explain, but “what are you going to do with that,” is a fucking fantastic question when a friend confides in you. You’re right that this requires some level of safety, but you are making sure they are still self-empowered. The worst thing you can do is remove that agency and try to solve someone’s problems for them.

hysan 7y ago
This is a great teaching technique as well. It opens the door for students to realize that they can attempt to solve a problem on their own. You also gain more insight into what roadblocks they are running into and what to really focus on. They also get to practice conveying their thoughts and in some cases, this builds confidence as they might find that they were much closer to the answer than they thought.
- ljm 7y ago
  This is classic mentoring. The difference between mentoring and coaching is that as a mentor you will offer answers. As a coach, you will offer none. In both cases you’re giving them the ropes but in the first you’re holding their hand around them. And as a teacher, you are telling them.
hawaiianbrah 7y ago
What are you a coach in training for?
- ljm 7y ago
  I think I want to do life coaching but more often than not I work with relationships. Relationships are a strong part of life. I’m a programmer but I don’t enjoy writing code. I enjoy helping people with themselves. So I strongly advocate for anyone who wants a way in and I choos to use my coaching skills to be a cheerleader for new and existing talent. But to answer your question, I’m a coach in training for coaching.

dustingetz 7y ago

I think you can skip #2, if you're trying to help then this is about them, it's not about you, so probably the word "I" can be removed from your vocabulary for the rest of the conversation. Algorithm for nerds is: ask questions, repeat back what you heard. Also works in sales!

beckingz 7y ago
If you've actually had a similar experience, that can be validating to share.
RussianCow 7y ago
It depends on the context. If you have had a very similar experience, it can help to share that they are not alone in their feelings. But reaching for straws to try to draw a similarity where none exists isn't helpful.

bort-simpson 7y ago

What I struggle with after #3 is when I get the response "I don't know". At that point I really don't know what the next steps are beside trying to come up with solutions (and that doesn't work out too well sometimes).

danenania 7y ago
I think it’s often a less is more kind of thing. If the goal is to listen, not offer advice or solutions, just acknowledging the answer is enough: “Gotcha”, or “I see”, or “Yeah it’s a tough one”. Then leave them the space to continue if they want to. Like many here, this has not been natural for me, but one thing I’ve been impressed by is how much more people will be encouraged to talk if you just give them short answers that show you’re listening and leave the ball in their court vs. taking over the conversation at every opportunity. Sometimes you just have to let the silence hang for a bit.
Swizec 7y ago
That’s when you share this story from amanda palmer https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/6679223-a-farmer-is-sitting-on-his-porch-in-a-chair https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/6679223-a-farmer-is-sitting... A farmer is sitting on his porch in a chair, hanging out. A friend walks up to the porch to say hello, and hears an awful yelping, squealing sound coming from inside the house. "What's that terrifyin' sound?" asks the friend. "It's my dog," said the farmer. "He's sittin' on a nail." "Why doesn't he just sit up and get off it?" asks the friend. The farmer deliberates on this and replies: "Doesn't hurt enough yet.
- bort-simpson 7y ago
  I love this quote. Thanks for sharing.

galaxyLogic 7y ago

Isn't that much what psychiatrists do, they guide you by asking questions?

Nition 7y ago

The trouble I have with #1 is when someone tells me their problem and they don't want help with it, now I have a new problem to worry about, and worse, I can't take action to solve it because the problem isn't mine. I guess the trick is not worrying about other people's problems. But... I dunno, I just don't like unsolved problems hanging around.

lsiebert 7y ago
You can always set a boundary with friends not to tell you their problems. "Hey, I appreciate you wanting to share with me, but I'm probably not the right person to just talk about problems with. I'm happy to listen if there's something I can do to help or if you want advice though!"
jmmarco 7y ago
Sometimes people just want to talk, they want to be heard; occasionally bouncing ideas or thoughts on somebody can help come to a realization, or even a solution to a particular problem.
galangalalgol 7y ago
The answer is to stop talking to normies. We'll make a virus some day that eliminates the nonspectrum and all be better off as a species. Sorry, I don't actually want that, I'm just venting. Wow that actually helped, maybe the normies are on to something.

idealstingray 7y ago

I really like this script! My neat trick is to directly ask "Do you just want to vent? Or do you want my advice?" If said in a gentle and non-sarcastic tone, this works pretty well on other engineers with meh social skills. I don't think I know any socially competent people to test it on.

exclusiv 7y ago

I'm the same. A problem solver that people bring information to and also vent to. I have no problem making decisions and I consider my instincts to be very good which can make it worse when I have a solution so soon. I've been working on being a better listener, getting more info and considering more angles and perspectives. You make some great points above which is what I try to follow too after doing it poorly in the past. It's especially important if you're married. :) My wife almost always wants my perspective but she wants to be listened to first and to vent on occasion. And also to ensure I have all the information first before I weigh in. She wants an advisor not a magic 8 ball.

FaiderX 7y ago

thank you for your advice, they were really helpful to me