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To add to this, it’s important is to realize that even when people open up to you about their problems, that still does not mean that they are asking for advice

To add to this, it’s important is to realize that even when people open up to you about their problems, that still does not mean that they are asking for advice! It’s very likely that what they primarily want and need from you is sympathy and validation. If you’re unsure, ask first.

SolaceQuantum 7y ago
Often it's useful to mentally frame this as that the problem is that the speaker feels unheard, not that they're speaking about a problem.
- Dumblydorr 7y ago
  And that more often than not, the speaker already knows potential solutions and next steps, they just want you to agree that it sucks. Too often, solutions driven people try to solve venters' problems rather than simply listening to what they are.
  - 77pt77 7y ago
    >Too often, solutions driven people try to solve venters' problems rather than simply listening to what they are. If you don't want actionable answers to a problem, save it to your personal life or therapist. Your colleagues have a duty to behave decently towards you but they are not paid to be your emotional dumpster.
    - whatshisface 7y ago
      You're talking about colleagues, who you don't have any duty to be emotionally available for, but the parent poster is talking about friends and family.
      - 77pt77 7y ago
        The top comment even mentioned strangers!
    - automatoney 7y ago
      Even if you have no contractual obligation to listen to your coworkers, in general many people enjoy, and potentially expect, to become closer with their coworkers which is generally accomplished through sharing personal details and emotions. It's totally fine if you don't want to participate, (and it's possible for people to over-rely on others for emotional labor) but I think many other people are more productive when they're more than just acquaintances with their coworkers.
    - grozzle 7y ago
      I'm quite certain everyone else knows we're talking about personal lives, not colleagues.
      - cc81 7y ago
        Some colleagues you spend a lot of time with and and there is still a bond even if you are not real friends that would spend time together outside of work. Sometimes my colleague needs to went about a project that is going bad or a person that is making their life difficult and sometimes I might do that as well. You listen and sometimes you discuss solutions but sometimes it just venting about a situation you both know is shitty. Just don't become they guy/girl who is always negative or talking shit about people though.
      - 77pt77 7y ago
        The discussion started even mentioning strangers.
    - onion2k 7y ago
      You may not feel an emotion connection to people you've spend thousands of hours around but that is unusual. Most people do. You can't really expect people who spend 1/3 to 1/2 of their waking hours in close proximity to one another for years to not become friends and confidants who are able to talk about serious, non-work things together. It's normal.
  - pitt1980 7y ago
    Those ideas aren't mutually exclusive. Sometimes people are more receptive about suggested solutions after you've expressed some solidarity. "Yeah that does suck" "That situation happened to me, it was a pain in the ass, I tried to do X, it didn't work that well, then I tried to do Y, it seemed to work ok, if I'm in that situation again, I'll probably go with Y"
zeropoint46 7y ago
Thanks for pointing this out. I agree 100%. When I find myself in this situation however I find it hard to be authentically sympathetic. And if it's not authentic I have trouble doing it at all. Am I broken? Is there anyway to work on this?
- tunesmith 7y ago
  The focus is on the person, not the problem they are describing. So the question is what they need as evidenced by their choice to talk about the problem, not what they need as evidenced by the existence of the problem itself. In other words, a choice to talk about a problem can be fueled by several possible impulses - the need to solve the problem, the need to connect with their friend, the need to share the interesting complexity of the problem, etc.
onlyrealcuzzo 7y ago
I've learned that people hardly ever want advice. Mostly, they want you to tell them that everything is okay. The hard thing to square is, if you really care about someone, and you really think you have some input that could help them, you need to figure out how to communicate that without annoying them / hurting their feelings. It's also important not to have an ego when giving advice / input. It's likely that you're not perfectly correct.
- arthurmerlin 7y ago
  At least for me, I would love advice that perfectly solves all my problems. But probably this advice doesn't exist, because if it did, I would have figured it out already. I often have conversations that go like this - Me: I have this problem that sucks. Other person: Have you tried A? Me: No, I thought about that already. A isn't a good idea because of B. Other person: Well, what about C? Me: No, I thought about that too. C isn't a good idea because of D. Other person: (Angrily) Well, I don't know how to help you then. And so now in addition to having to deal with a hard problem to solve, I have to deal with making other people angry about how they can not solve my hard problems.
  - mrmonkeyman 7y ago
    It is because you are making excuses and looking for ways out when a simple, but harsh, solution suffices. It is extremely tiring to have to deal with endless "cannot do D, because of C, because of B, because of A" when you just know that A through C are all BS reasons and you yourself as the listener would cut right through it. That is what causing the anger, not your "hard problem".
  - pitt1980 7y ago
    are you positive that B and D are rule out A and C? maybe a slight more productive way to have these conversations would be "I thought about A, it didn't seem like a good idea to me because of B, what do you think? Am I thinking about this wrong? Is there some reason why B doesn't prevent A from being a good idea?" subtle difference, but it signals that you value their input and ideas, and leaves open the possibility of you learning new things about your problem (if you don't value their input and ideas, perhaps you shouldn't share your problems with them)
mturmon 7y ago
> If you’re unsure, ask first. Good advice. Sometimes people clarify situations by talking about them, and simple active listening can provide what's needed. If sympathy is what they want, and you start offering solutions, they will be tempted to argue back about why the solutions won't work, and then (as the saying goes) you have two problems.
GeorgeTirebiter 7y ago
What I've found is people usually want to be validated. That they exist; and they are important enough to be listened to. That's all. If they ask for more, fine. But usually, listening is the Gift they are asking you for.

SolaceQuantum 7y ago

Often it's useful to mentally frame this as that the problem is that the speaker feels unheard, not that they're speaking about a problem.

Dumblydorr 7y ago
And that more often than not, the speaker already knows potential solutions and next steps, they just want you to agree that it sucks. Too often, solutions driven people try to solve venters' problems rather than simply listening to what they are.
- 77pt77 7y ago
  >Too often, solutions driven people try to solve venters' problems rather than simply listening to what they are. If you don't want actionable answers to a problem, save it to your personal life or therapist. Your colleagues have a duty to behave decently towards you but they are not paid to be your emotional dumpster.
  - whatshisface 7y ago
    You're talking about colleagues, who you don't have any duty to be emotionally available for, but the parent poster is talking about friends and family.
    - 77pt77 7y ago
      The top comment even mentioned strangers!
  - automatoney 7y ago
    Even if you have no contractual obligation to listen to your coworkers, in general many people enjoy, and potentially expect, to become closer with their coworkers which is generally accomplished through sharing personal details and emotions. It's totally fine if you don't want to participate, (and it's possible for people to over-rely on others for emotional labor) but I think many other people are more productive when they're more than just acquaintances with their coworkers.
  - grozzle 7y ago
    I'm quite certain everyone else knows we're talking about personal lives, not colleagues.
    - cc81 7y ago
      Some colleagues you spend a lot of time with and and there is still a bond even if you are not real friends that would spend time together outside of work. Sometimes my colleague needs to went about a project that is going bad or a person that is making their life difficult and sometimes I might do that as well. You listen and sometimes you discuss solutions but sometimes it just venting about a situation you both know is shitty. Just don't become they guy/girl who is always negative or talking shit about people though.
    - 77pt77 7y ago
      The discussion started even mentioning strangers.
  - onion2k 7y ago
    You may not feel an emotion connection to people you've spend thousands of hours around but that is unusual. Most people do. You can't really expect people who spend 1/3 to 1/2 of their waking hours in close proximity to one another for years to not become friends and confidants who are able to talk about serious, non-work things together. It's normal.
- pitt1980 7y ago
  Those ideas aren't mutually exclusive. Sometimes people are more receptive about suggested solutions after you've expressed some solidarity. "Yeah that does suck" "That situation happened to me, it was a pain in the ass, I tried to do X, it didn't work that well, then I tried to do Y, it seemed to work ok, if I'm in that situation again, I'll probably go with Y"

zeropoint46 7y ago

Thanks for pointing this out. I agree 100%. When I find myself in this situation however I find it hard to be authentically sympathetic. And if it's not authentic I have trouble doing it at all. Am I broken? Is there anyway to work on this?

tunesmith 7y ago
The focus is on the person, not the problem they are describing. So the question is what they need as evidenced by their choice to talk about the problem, not what they need as evidenced by the existence of the problem itself. In other words, a choice to talk about a problem can be fueled by several possible impulses - the need to solve the problem, the need to connect with their friend, the need to share the interesting complexity of the problem, etc.

onlyrealcuzzo 7y ago

I've learned that people hardly ever want advice. Mostly, they want you to tell them that everything is okay. The hard thing to square is, if you really care about someone, and you really think you have some input that could help them, you need to figure out how to communicate that without annoying them / hurting their feelings. It's also important not to have an ego when giving advice / input. It's likely that you're not perfectly correct.

arthurmerlin 7y ago
At least for me, I would love advice that perfectly solves all my problems. But probably this advice doesn't exist, because if it did, I would have figured it out already. I often have conversations that go like this - Me: I have this problem that sucks. Other person: Have you tried A? Me: No, I thought about that already. A isn't a good idea because of B. Other person: Well, what about C? Me: No, I thought about that too. C isn't a good idea because of D. Other person: (Angrily) Well, I don't know how to help you then. And so now in addition to having to deal with a hard problem to solve, I have to deal with making other people angry about how they can not solve my hard problems.
- mrmonkeyman 7y ago
  It is because you are making excuses and looking for ways out when a simple, but harsh, solution suffices. It is extremely tiring to have to deal with endless "cannot do D, because of C, because of B, because of A" when you just know that A through C are all BS reasons and you yourself as the listener would cut right through it. That is what causing the anger, not your "hard problem".
- pitt1980 7y ago
  are you positive that B and D are rule out A and C? maybe a slight more productive way to have these conversations would be "I thought about A, it didn't seem like a good idea to me because of B, what do you think? Am I thinking about this wrong? Is there some reason why B doesn't prevent A from being a good idea?" subtle difference, but it signals that you value their input and ideas, and leaves open the possibility of you learning new things about your problem (if you don't value their input and ideas, perhaps you shouldn't share your problems with them)

mturmon 7y ago

> If you’re unsure, ask first. Good advice. Sometimes people clarify situations by talking about them, and simple active listening can provide what's needed. If sympathy is what they want, and you start offering solutions, they will be tempted to argue back about why the solutions won't work, and then (as the saying goes) you have two problems.

GeorgeTirebiter 7y ago

What I've found is people usually want to be validated. That they exist; and they are important enough to be listened to. That's all. If they ask for more, fine. But usually, listening is the Gift they are asking you for.