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While some of you may make light of the fact that I am giving you advice, my single most important piece of advice to people who are highly analytical and/or al

While some of you may make light of the fact that I am giving you advice, my single most important piece of advice to people who are highly analytical and/or always solving problems is to not give unsolicited advice to friends, family, acquaintances, or even strangers. People will ask for advice if they really want it. People are not “broken pieces of code” begging to be fixed. I’ve lost friends over this, until one dear friend pointed this out to me in a “look, I have to tell you something really really important” manner.

jfoucher 7y ago
Generally when people come to you about their problems they do not want or even need advice. Whenever I am in that position I try to help them understand the problem, by just asking questions to understand the problem clearly myself. You can dig pretty deep in that way and they may open up to the root of the issue, and sometimes reveal a belief that is preventing them from carrying out the correct action. In many cases once they have talked at length about the problem so that all it's ramifications are as clear for you as they are for them, they have also greatly increased their own perception of their problem, which generally reveals an obvious solution (and this is the important bit) that they themselves have to put into words. The "solution" may be obvious to you, but if you present it as such immediately you will get pushback.
- kempbellt 7y ago
  Can relate. Being a good listener usually allows people to solve their own problems just by you letting them explain it to you. I used to joke that at a previous gig I was the team's therapist because I'd take people out to coffee or a beer and let them vent about whatever problem they're dealing with, while not really caring too much about it myself. Very rarely did I ever give any advice unless I was directly asked, and usually I would just give a question like "Well, have you tried this option?". Listening to the problem while simultaneously not caring about gives the other person the ability to care less about it as well - and a solution usually presents itself.
mettamage 7y ago
Noted, thanks. Also, I believe you're right. I've experienced both sides.
Sharlin 7y ago
To add to this, it’s important is to realize that even when people open up to you about their problems, that still does not mean that they are asking for advice! It’s very likely that what they primarily want and need from you is sympathy and validation. If you’re unsure, ask first.
- SolaceQuantum 7y ago
  Often it's useful to mentally frame this as that the problem is that the speaker feels unheard, not that they're speaking about a problem.
  - Dumblydorr 7y ago
    And that more often than not, the speaker already knows potential solutions and next steps, they just want you to agree that it sucks. Too often, solutions driven people try to solve venters' problems rather than simply listening to what they are.
    - 77pt77 7y ago
      >Too often, solutions driven people try to solve venters' problems rather than simply listening to what they are. If you don't want actionable answers to a problem, save it to your personal life or therapist. Your colleagues have a duty to behave decently towards you but they are not paid to be your emotional dumpster.
      - whatshisface 7y ago
        You're talking about colleagues, who you don't have any duty to be emotionally available for, but the parent poster is talking about friends and family.
        77pt77 7y ago
        The top comment even mentioned strangers!
username90 7y ago
> People will ask for advice if they really want it. People will even ask for advice even when they really don't want it! So don't say that a girl is fat and needs to diet even if she asks you why she can't get the guys she want and tell you to be honest. Some want to hear that but most don't.
- Madmallard 7y ago
  What would you say is the right behavior in that situation, then?
  - username90 7y ago
    You have to know the person to be sure they are ok with it. If there is any uncertainty then don't be honest about what you think, just give the standard advice like "Just be yourself" or "You are wonderful, just haven't found the right one yet!". The alternative is to just be brutally honest and that way filter out friends who aren't ok with it. It might hurt a bit, but if you value this kind of communication over having many friends it could be worth it. Just don't do this at your job since you will likely get fired or managed out.
    - filoleg 7y ago
      >The alternative is to just be brutally honest and that way filter out friends who aren't ok with it. I found the inverse to be even more valuable. Finding friends who are not afraid to be brutally honest with you when the situation calls for it is difficult, but worth it so much. Just make sure you actually can receive this kind of criticism first without taking it as a personal attack.
    - Madmallard 7y ago
      Lying is bad
      - leetcrew 7y ago
        yes and no. the actual content of a conversation is often not the literal meaning of the words. many conversations are actually meaningless, but serve to anchor participants in the script. when the cashier says "hi, how are you?" and you say "alright, how about you?" even though you feel awful, this is not really lying; it's just a choreographed handshake that begins the transaction. in the stereotypical "does this dress make me look fat?" conversation, the person is (probably) not asking whether her partner think she looks fat. the actual content here is usually a request for reassurance. even if the partner does think she looks fat, "no, of course not" isn't really a lie; it's just satisfying the subtextual request. if on the other hand, she says "I have a meeting with some executives today, does this outfit work?", she is looking for a literal answer and responding with reassurance would be unhelpful.
geoffreyhale 7y ago
Empathy
throwaway07Ju19 7y ago
I've taken this even further. I no longer correct any factual mistakes or misspoken words unless the person making this error is either a student or someone who reads. Even then it may be best to not say anything.
- x2f10 7y ago
  > or someone who reads. Can you please elaborate? I don't follow.
  - therealcamino 7y ago
    Often, mispronouncing a word means you've seen it in print, but haven't heard it said aloud. So I've heard some people say that they mentally frame it not as an embarrassing mistake but as a sign that the speaker reads a lot.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - rubidium 7y ago
      Totally me. I’ve read far more than I’ll ever hear. And I’m terrible at pronouncing things correctly because it’s almost pure visual memory.
      - kungtotte 7y ago
        Also, to be fair, some words are just plain pronounced wrong. Hyperbole Epitome Worcestershire They break the phonetic rules of the language and you're kind of expected to memorize it and get on with it.
    - solipsism 7y ago
      Yeah but the qualification "unless it's someone who reads" is obviously wrong. Lots of people read.
    - tapland 7y ago
ritchiea 7y ago
This is a good start. I would strongly recommend focusing on listening and asking questions when a friend comes to you with a problem or something on their mind. People universally want to be heard and understood. Offer emotional support, if by some chance you really think your friend is in the wrong, that person probably needs to be lovingly nudged rather than abrasively confronted. Occasionally people do legitimately want your advice & perspective and to be careful about it you can precede it with "would you like to hear my perspective/advice?"
x2f10 7y ago
You are spot on. I have had to learn this multiple times. If the person is not willing to accept the observation with open arms (hint: most are not), you will only push the person away. However, I can't help but see the small irony in your reply. >[do not] give unsolicited advice to friends, family, acquaintances, or even strangers >one dear friend [gave me unsolicited advice which helped]
- hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
  I think the standard psycho-therapeutic "tell them how it makes you feel" advice applies here and accounts for the difference. It's one thing to give unsolicited advice to someone. It's quite another to tell a close friend "Look, I need to tell you something important because I care about you. When you start telling me all the ways I should change to be a 'better person', it really makes me feel bad, and makes me not want to hang around you. It certainly doesn't motivate me to actually make any of your suggested changes."
  - leetcrew 7y ago
    I don't really think unsolicited advice is even that bad usually. if you see someone struggling with a task and offer a good tip, they usually appreciate it. when someone starts venting about a problem, they are (implicitly) asking for something other than advice: usually just a kind ear. this is basically the worst moment to start offering advice.
deleted 7y ago
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rollerboi 7y ago
I've been working on this since I noticed it in myself a few years back. It's really difficult because I'm the "problem-solver," but I'm also the person that people want to vent to. So I've come to realize - After a friend/coworker shares something that they're sad/angry about, my standard MO is: 1) Say something like "Wow, that must really feel terrible. I'm sorry to hear that!" (I always feel the need to add more to this statement, but it's better off said with a light touch and not heavy-handed.) Then, 2) "I feel like I was in a similar situation a few months ago when..." Important rule about this step - this statement is NOT to be a 1-upper. You're not saying this to proclaim that your situation from the past is more significant/worse than their situation. You're saying this because it helps your friend/colleague understand that they're not alone in how they're feeling, and their feelings are (generally-speaking) justified. Also - You don't talk about what you did to solve the issue. You talk about how you felt, etc. Be vulnerable, be open, and the person venting to you will respond similarly. Finally, 3) Ask "So what are you gonna do about it?" This kinda turns its head on the status-quo. Usually, this is the time you start explaining "Well here's what I did in my situation!" But that's not what you want here. Instead, you're asking the person if they've thought of a plan to tackle the issue. If you've established a "safe space" to discuss the topic, they feel more open about sharing their plan to resolve the problem, even if they don't have a plan and have to come up with it on the spot. Then, more likely than not, they'll ask "What do you think?" At this point, you're free to let your problem-solving self run wild, assuming that you don't then consider your friend/colleague a "broken piece of code begging to be fixed."
- pjanoman 7y ago
  If a friend/coworker shares something that they're sad/angry about, sometimes they're not asking for advice. Sometimes they just want someone to relate to them and their struggles. #3 can sometimes be a detractor because, once again, you need to wait for them to ask for advice and not just come in with your own advice/assuming that they are even asking for help. Venting emotions != Asking for help
  - ljm 7y ago
    Yes and no. When you ask “so what do you want to do about it?”, you get no as an answer. “I was just venting man” is a legit response, so it’s all fair enough. You can take it from there. Let them vent, you can only vent so much.
bytematic 7y ago
I rarely even believe in "advice", mostly people will just know and do what they want. The collection of learning from their experiences informs those decisions nearly 100%.
OscarCunningham 7y ago
You noted the irony that you're giving us advice about not giving advice. But there's actually a double irony because you're giving advice about not giving advice due to your friend giving you advice about not giving advice.
- mc3 7y ago
  The problem with online forums! In real life you can check if the person wants advice: do a "meta" offer of advice and back off if they don't want it. But on a public forum you need to put it out there. If HN had a spoiler feature that might help as you could make the advice shown on click.
- hnick 7y ago
  I noticed this too. I think that as a fellow advice-giver problem-fixer, I actually welcome unsolicited advice if it's useful. That's basically why I give it - since I'd like to get it. So the friend probably realised that.
- rypskar 7y ago
  The difference, as I see it, is between giving a general advice and giving advice as a response to someone venting about something. There is no problem with telling, "I have learned that X", or "in my experience X is a good thing to do when Y". The problem is when you answer with, "you should do X" when someone tell you about a problem they have without asking for help with solving the problem. It is even a difference between me saying something like: "The way this work in javascript sucks", which clearly is venting. And: "the way this work in javascript is so confusing, can you help me understand it?" Someone writing a blog-post about how this work is of course also advice, but not as a direct answer to someone venting about it. Meta, I know the sentence structure wasn't the best, but I don't want help with improving it right now
journalctl 7y ago
Sometimes people just want someone to listen. Sometimes there’s nothing else you can do.
- 08-15 7y ago
  Sometimes people just want someone to blame. If you listen, you might become that someone.
  - journalctl 7y ago
    Extend a little empathy once in a while. I promise people aren’t out to get you nearly as much as you seemingly believe.
    - 08-15 7y ago
      In actual experience, the people in question weren't "out to get me". They complained about things going wrong (due to their own actions), and I listened. Now their failures are my fault, according to some bizarre logic I can't understand, or so I heard through the grapevine. I don't think any malicious intent was involved. They just tried to protect their fragile egos, and I was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Also, I was stupid enough to listen.
wisty 7y ago
In Chinese culture, there's a big thing about your true friends being the ones who will tell you when you're wrong. A coworker, on the other hand, is not your responsibility, it's their life they're screwing up. Of course, that doesn't mean people like it. Personally, I will eventually give advice to people if they're venting. I'll make it polite, of course. If they don't want to fix their shit, then I'm not obliged to listen to it.
- thisisnico 7y ago
  The best advice I've ever been given is when I didn't ask. Honestly trying to please people doesn't always help them out. Being the bad guy can help them more than sulking with them. A good friend will care more about you than what you think of them.
  - procombo 7y ago
    This exactly. I spent most of my professional career actively SEEKING feedback at every turn. So it's kind of a relief when someone offers "free" advice, even when it's personal. While it's rarely very useful, and sometimes annoying, it's not something people expect me to be offended about. If it's really not that useful the conversation changes quickly. It's usually just a window into another's frame of mind. I welcome it.
- b0rsuk 7y ago
  In Poland, we have a proverb "One gets to know his true friends when he's poor." A true friend will be with you in times of need, a false one will break ties.
  - jwilk 7y ago
    Many languages have similar sayings: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/a_friend_in_need_is_a_friend_indeed https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/a_friend_in_need_is_a_friend_...
benburleson 7y ago
This is especially important with your spouse/partner/significant other. At the beginning of our relationship, I can't tell you how many times I heard, "I'm not asking for you to solve my problem, I just want you to listen!" It can be frustrating, I know, but just shut up and be there for the person that just needs you to be there.
- baroffoos 7y ago
  Its easier to just date someone who likes having problems solved.
lawn 7y ago
I've started to ask my girlfriend if "she wants me to solve her problem" or just "want me to listen" quite often. If you tend to fall into this trap, like I do, I can really recommend this approach.
- system2 7y ago
  And how does she respond to you usually?
  - chubbyrabbit 7y ago
    "I just want you to understand"
  - lawn 7y ago
    Almost always she just wants me to listen.
dsalzman 7y ago
100x this
randomsearch 7y ago
Thank you. Honestly, this is something I already learnt but I hearing it with such clarity from a stranger makes me feel like I’ll stick to it better. I am a “fixer” and it’s no surprise I code :-/
deleted 7y ago
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LVB 7y ago
One instance of this I've struggled with (mainly b/c online comms is hard) is when people publicly post that they're annoyed about a confusing thing. "OMG why does it take 10 clicks to do X". This often prompts solutions ("If you turn on Y, then it will only take 2 clicks"), but can sometimes then be followed by irritated rebuttals ("Yes yes I know it's configurable but the point is..."). On the one hand I get the desire to just vent. But if you're going to post certain types of problems (esp technical) very publicly, IMO the expectation should be for unsolicited feedback, especially since others might benefit. Nonetheless, I still usually err on the side of not replying.
- orblivion 7y ago
  I can see myself being one of these irritated people. More than once, I've posted (maybe not even on Twitter; maybe on a support channel of some sort) something like "why did it take me 30 minutes to figure out how to do X?" And people, particularly the developers or people in the community, will reply with "just do Y and Z and you can do X". This irritates me because I didn't say "I can't do X!", I said "it took me 30 minutes to figure out how to do X". I.e, a usability problem, not a functionality problem. And the fact that it doesn't register to them that this is what I'm complaining about is all the more irritating ("yes I know, but the point is..." from your example), because it feeds into my bias that they have a blind spot about their own UI. As to whether I'm just venting, I suppose I imagine that on Twitter the developers might hear my complaints. (And yes, as such I should always remind myself to keep my complaint relatively respectful for this reason).
ljm 7y ago
If this is important to you, I strongly recommend you to explore short courses on active listening and coaching. As part of the process you learn that you’re not there to offer solutions, you’re there to listen and let those people find their own solution. You know, like the rubber duck.
robocat 7y ago
> not give unsolicited advice to friends, family, acquaintances, or even strangers. I strongly disagree here. Friends should try and help friends IF they have the skills to do so. And we should all try and learn how, while recognising our limitations (I'm an engineer stereotype so I don't pretend to myself I am very skilled). I agree that knowing when to keep your mouth shut is obligatory, and I completely agree it is extremely difficult to help without alienating. You should know some people who do have the skills to gently and successfully help others, often older and less obvious. I personally try and learn that skill by copying their tact and non-judgement. Beware that many people completely lack the skills even though their job should need it (I've seen nurses, psychologists, social workers etc with nearly zero ability - Dunning Kruger?). > People will ask for advice if they really want it Yet there are plenty of counter-examples, especially when people lack the insight to even see their own problems. > I’ve lost friends over this I've risked losing friends over this when I've felt strongly about it. Take time to myself to think about whatever the issue is. Losing a friend can be better than not trying to help a friend. Acquantances are different: personally I let most people do what they will - who am I to judge their path? How can I help if I don't know them well, and I am not around as needed? I guess there are people that can and do help in a short encounter, but either they are uncommon or I don't recognise the skill.
golemiprague 7y ago
Why are you so extreme, sometimes people just want to vent and want some sympathy, mainly true for women but also for guys in cases. Sometimes they do want advice even when they don't ask, sometimes the advice itself can be soothing even if not act upon. Social queue are not even the right thing to do always except from confirming to the social norm itself. Women do it all the time, they say the "right" thing and then you will hear from the rest of them how saying those "right" things elevate the women who said it to a "bitch", because they sense that it is not what she said that matters but the underlying feelings she conveyed. The bottom line is, the whole thing is much more nuanced.
Phenomenit 7y ago
Yeah, I struggle with this a lot. My life is so focused on problem-solving that my mind doesn't generate anything else. Sure I can say a few empty words of empathy and sympathy but that leaves a lot of empty air to fill and using tools is all I got and I can't remember a time when I wasn't like this.
cliffdover 7y ago
I'm taking notes.
- D_Alex 7y ago
  ...Cliff's Notes?
AnimalMuppet 7y ago
With my wife, when she was upset about something, I'd tell her how to fix it. That... didn't go well. Eventually, I learned to just let her talk, and for me to say "Uh huh", for about five minutes. Then I could tell her how to fix the problem. But I had to listen for five minutes first. Note well: Five minutes worked for me talking to my wife. For person X talking to person Y, the correct time may range from 0 to infinity.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  Same here. I learned the hard way that I have to pay the entry fee of listening for 5-10 minutes and affirming emotions before I'm allowed to offer solutions. This wasn't immediately obvious for me, because in my case, the optimal listening time is 0 - if I didn't want actionable advice or knew how to solve a problem, I wouldn't be bringing it up in the first place.
  - zozbot234 7y ago
    At it's most basic, it is simply a matter of trust. If the other person doesn't trust you not to attack their emotional stance, then by listening for a few minutes and acknowledging that you're willing to do so, you signal to them that you aren't going to do that.
  - jimmaswell 7y ago
    Why are men expected to be the only ones who have to put in any effort and make any changes in this situation?
    - AnimalMuppet 7y ago
      Partly because, in that situation, I'm the one who's not upset. I'm not the one who's on the verge of tears. I therefore am probably more able to make the adjustment at that moment.
      - humanrebar 7y ago
abnry 7y ago
To refine this, it's not necessarily about giving advice unsolicited, but minimizing the personhood and agency of the person you are giving advice to. Sometimes giving unsolicited advice is the best thing a friend can do, but you need to do it in the right circumstances and in the right way. Anyone who receives unsolicited advice often has reason to believe that the advice giver (a) doesn't truly understand the issue at hand (b) cares more about themselves being the giver of information than it actually helping. Before you give advice, you need to make sure you've established trust. One way of doing this is to actively listen and communicate back what you understand. Many social problems involve an emotional aspect, which is why many people recommend acknowledging the emotions of another person. Spewing a ton of information without listening doesn't build trust. And if you present it as something they SHOULD do, versus something they have the OPTION of choosing, that minimizes their agency. People don't like to be bossed around. The reason why your comment is no big deal on this forum is that you haven't targeted anyone personally, so nobody feels like you are misunderstanding their personal circumstances or that you are trying to trump their agency.
badrabbit 7y ago
Not only that,but people take offense at factual analysis. If I present a fact and reasoning on why I consider it a fact, regardless of how unpleasant it might be I expect people to not take it personally and either contest my reasoning or accept/ignore what I said. However, being correct does not mean I shouldn't be sensitive to my audience. For example, if someone is a flat earther and I tell them why I think they are wrong, the more reasonable my argument is, the more they take it personally and get hurt because they tie their worth and value to their beliefs on those subjects. Avoid people that can't stand facts? Isolation sucks.
- humanrebar 7y ago
  Most of the hand wringing about advice here is overblown. Definitely pay attention to the audience. If they're bored or off-put by advice, stop it. Maybe slip an apology in. But part of being yourself, (generally what people advise!) is being OK with some people not enjoying your approach. Other people will enjoy a nice troubleshooting session and they'll stick around.
- edmundsauto 7y ago
  I recently read a book called Mindful Communication that uses a red/yellow/green light model for understanding the state of mind of the other person. In a discussion, there's a relationship; relationships are not fact-based, or in a vacuum. You have to take the immediate context as an input as well, to understand how receptive the other person is. Or not. However, if the concern is to state facts, then it's not really a communication because it ignores the reception and betrays the actual intention of the fact-stater.
mc3 7y ago
It is probably better to offer "if you need some help with X I have some experience with it". If they come back to you, you are then free to give advice. Otherwise shut up!
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Invictus0 7y ago
I doubt that this is really your problem; more likely that you're trying to fix people in a grating way. Try saying something like "have you ever considered ___" and asking if they'd like to learn more.
cambalache 7y ago
So he gave you unsolicited advice.
ijiiijji1 7y ago
Boundaries are the bigger point. What's funny is I see on Steve Lehto's YT vids that he says random non-doctors diagnose him with all kinds of fatal ailments in spite of him recently running a marathon. Lmao!
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m463 7y ago
This goes double in some situations. When somebody has lost a loved one, never say "I know just how you feel, blah blah". In fact, this is when you MUST say you can't imagine how they feel. Then listen.
jimmaswell 7y ago
I'd rather just not talk to someone like that so if they don't want to be friends anymore over being suggested a mechanic when having car issues or something then good. There's a youtube video about those kind of crazies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg
starpilot 7y ago
Unsolicited advice feels like criticism. It almost never is intended as such, but that's often how it feels. It's also almost always self-serving; the advisor wants to be a hero, and the recipient picks up on this and ends up feeling alone. Really recommend the book Messages: The Communications Skills Book by McKay.
- humanrebar 7y ago
  I think that's overgeneralized. "If you cut across on Maple, you can skip that slow light on Main Street." "Nice. I'll try that next time."
Ixiaus 7y ago
I'm 33 and I wish I learned this a long time ago (I started realizing I did this 4 years ago and it took a while for it to sink in how much people dislike unsolicited advice). I think, for me, it comes from a deep desire and need to be "noticed" and when I am observing someone or listening to someone and there is an opportunity for me to start "fixing" I feel this compulsive urge to do so. I've started telling myself: just STFU. STFU, let them talk, and if after talking they open the door for feedback or thoughts or observations share them, otherwise they only want someone to acknowledge what's going on for them. Unsolicited advice is also really vicious the more I've thought about it, you're robbing someone of the opportunity to figure things out for themselves, even if you've figured it out yourself or you have a great way of doing things, most people will and should figure things out on their own (and those that want to improve will open themselves up to feedback).
jlawson 7y ago
The other side of this is expressed in the classic comedy video, "It's Not About the Nail" (1:41). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg
bigred100 7y ago
Many people view this as wanting to help solve a problem. Many people it in a much less benign manner, and in fact view it as a possible sign of pride, arrogance, and (past a certain point or in extreme cases) delusion on the part of the speaker if they keep trying to give advice on matters where they aren’t qualified, or without giving the right attention to the context, or taking into account other issues they may not be aware of.
- baroffoos 7y ago
  The last part seems on point. I imagine a lot of advice people give is pretty obvious and the person with the problem has already considered it but can't action it because of some other reason the advice giver didn't think of and the person giving advice is sick of having to explain why all of the suggestions given will not work.
topmonk 7y ago
Sounds like the people you hang out with are narcissistic assholes. Maybe they have something to do with your predicament.
majani 7y ago
This is very hard, especially when you make ground-breaking strides in life and notice someone making the same mistakes you made previously. I personally had the epiphany last year that a woman's attraction to you cannot be bought or negotiated. It's a conscious effort to keep my mouth shut when seeing other men breaking their backs trying to buy their way into a woman's heart with wild experiences and fancy gifts.
joelbluminator 7y ago
There's the other side of this; If you're a constant complainer and you don't want to hear other people's advice or perspective - but just want them to commiserate with you, take it into account that it requires a lot of patience, energy and good intention from the other person to contain you - especially if you're constantly doing this. Complaining can easily become addictive, by which point you will see the whole world negatively, and might push those around you further away.
rsp1984 7y ago
I can relate to this 100%. The funny thing is though, I actually like it when friends give me candid unsolicited advice -- of course as long as it's communicated respectfully and not in a condescending manner. I take it as a sign that someone is more than superficially interested in the interaction with me, and it helps me understand other people's viewpoints. “look, I have to tell you something really really important” See, this is what I mean. In that case it was your friend giving you unsolicited advice and it sounds like it was actually important advice to receive and your life improved as a consequence. Do you now like your friend less?
dspillett 7y ago
> I’ve lost friends over this I've stopped helping, or even started avoiding, some "friends" because of this. Of course some tact is needed, and I've sometimes got that wrong. You have to properly listen before making suggestions, perhaps you need to ask questions first too to make sure you actually really understand, and definitely watch for signs (or explicit mentions) that advice/solutions are not wanted at this point (sometimes people just need to sound it out, to help get things in order in their own heads), and don't give definitive sounding advice when you aren't as sure as you sound, and sometimes great care needs to be given to your wording/intonation (lest advice be confused for judgement), but if after all that I make a suggestion and get my face bitten off, I am not the dick in that situation. An actual quote, yelled before storming off: "oh, that is just like you, trying to solve everything". Damn right that is just like me, the me you know well. If someone I care about has a problem in front of me then yes I'll try help them solve it. If you don't like that, then making me not care is not particularly difficult - screaming "oh, that is just like you, trying to solve everything", storming off, and not offering any apology at all afterwards, is an effective step in that process. Of course I need to be aware that how I react to problems may not be what other people want, and I'm not afraid to admit that empathy is a trait/skill I am sometimes not as strong in as I would like to be. But accepting that other people are different should work both ways.
- mnsc 7y ago
  > If someone I care about has a problem in front of me then yes I'll try help them solve it. You should read about the triforce. http://thebetaman.com/2017/09/26/the-triforce-of-communication/ http://thebetaman.com/2017/09/26/the-triforce-of-communicati...
- arthurmerlin 7y ago
  What happens when people tell you about problems that require experts in a specific area to solve, and you are not an expert in that area? Do you still try to help? Like I will tell my friends and family about problems I am having at work because they are my friends and family and I assume that they care about how my life is going. If they are able to provide solutions, I will not rule it out for them. But most likely they are not because they have different jobs. When people attempt to give advice on things they don't know about, I assume they are more interested in appearing smart than my well being.
doomjunky 7y ago
Giving advice is a domination game Ref: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20752088 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20752088
mason_jake 7y ago
I was told last year I can be way too optimistic / silver-lining-finding in negative situations. I used to always look for the solution to a problem as opposed to providing whatever the sharer of that problem wanted (usually validation/assurance). It has been somewhat difficult to turn off that "always helping" part of me - and to be frank it will probably never go away completely which I don't think is a bad thing - but substantial progress has been made.
tuesdayrain 7y ago
The advice people give is often the advice they wish someone told them.
manuel_w 7y ago
Yes. "Ein ungefragter Rat ist ein Schlag." Unfortunately, in english, it doesn't rhyme that nicely: "An undemanded advice is a punch." (I seriously doubt that "undemanded" is the best translation for "ungefragt", but you get the idea.) When feel like people would benefit from advice to the extent that not giving it would be unfriendly/selfish/whatever itself, I try to follow following guidelines: * Refraining from using "you did", "you said", "you <whatever", but instead choosing something like "I read that as", "I interpreted it this way". * Not implying what the other one meant, but instead saying something like "when I did it the way you did, I did it because of xy. Only later I learned that I was wrong, and people didn't actually mean it that way." That puts you onto the same level as the person you are talking to. Even if the other person takes what you say as accusation, you are accusing yourself of the same, so it's less bad. Plus, there is still the emergency exit for the other person to say "well, actually my reasons for stating it this way are entirely different". I hope you get what I mean.
- RmDen 7y ago
  I would probably use unasked instead of undemanded
- arendtio 7y ago
  I know it as "Ratschläge sind auch Schläge." which could be translated as "Advice is also punishment" In German it becomes obvious as the word "Schläge" (punishment/beating/plural of punch) is part of the word "Ratschläge" (advice).
- cmbailey 7y ago
  advice unrequested is like a punch ...conveys the meaning of the German words best to me. It's funny how meaning of words in one language doesn't map cleanly to another.
dennisgorelik 7y ago
The most important reason why I give unsolicited advice -- is to get feedback on my own advice (what mistakes does my advice contain?) If a person does not want to discuss my advice - they cannot give me feedback about my advice. If I cannot get that feedback - why do I need that person in my life in the first place? So when I give unsolicited advice -- I implicitly encourage people I do not need in my life - to disconnect from me. That frees my attention to people who are good with using advise as a tool for improvement.
deleted 7y ago
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d0mine 7y ago
Your advice is to avoid giving advice. Isn't it self-contradictory?
2OEH8eoCRo0 7y ago
I lost a friend by giving unsolicited advice. They complained to me about being tired/feeling unwell for the umpteenth time and I suggested they take better care of themselves. I was lambasted for giving, "unsolicited advice."

jfoucher 7y ago

Generally when people come to you about their problems they do not want or even need advice. Whenever I am in that position I try to help them understand the problem, by just asking questions to understand the problem clearly myself. You can dig pretty deep in that way and they may open up to the root of the issue, and sometimes reveal a belief that is preventing them from carrying out the correct action. In many cases once they have talked at length about the problem so that all it's ramifications are as clear for you as they are for them, they have also greatly increased their own perception of their problem, which generally reveals an obvious solution (and this is the important bit) that they themselves have to put into words. The "solution" may be obvious to you, but if you present it as such immediately you will get pushback.

kempbellt 7y ago
Can relate. Being a good listener usually allows people to solve their own problems just by you letting them explain it to you. I used to joke that at a previous gig I was the team's therapist because I'd take people out to coffee or a beer and let them vent about whatever problem they're dealing with, while not really caring too much about it myself. Very rarely did I ever give any advice unless I was directly asked, and usually I would just give a question like "Well, have you tried this option?". Listening to the problem while simultaneously not caring about gives the other person the ability to care less about it as well - and a solution usually presents itself.

mettamage 7y ago

Noted, thanks. Also, I believe you're right. I've experienced both sides.

Sharlin 7y ago

To add to this, it’s important is to realize that even when people open up to you about their problems, that still does not mean that they are asking for advice! It’s very likely that what they primarily want and need from you is sympathy and validation. If you’re unsure, ask first.

SolaceQuantum 7y ago
Often it's useful to mentally frame this as that the problem is that the speaker feels unheard, not that they're speaking about a problem.
- Dumblydorr 7y ago
  And that more often than not, the speaker already knows potential solutions and next steps, they just want you to agree that it sucks. Too often, solutions driven people try to solve venters' problems rather than simply listening to what they are.
  - 77pt77 7y ago
    >Too often, solutions driven people try to solve venters' problems rather than simply listening to what they are. If you don't want actionable answers to a problem, save it to your personal life or therapist. Your colleagues have a duty to behave decently towards you but they are not paid to be your emotional dumpster.
    - whatshisface 7y ago
      You're talking about colleagues, who you don't have any duty to be emotionally available for, but the parent poster is talking about friends and family.
      - 77pt77 7y ago
        The top comment even mentioned strangers!

username90 7y ago

> People will ask for advice if they really want it. People will even ask for advice even when they really don't want it! So don't say that a girl is fat and needs to diet even if she asks you why she can't get the guys she want and tell you to be honest. Some want to hear that but most don't.

Madmallard 7y ago
What would you say is the right behavior in that situation, then?
- username90 7y ago
  You have to know the person to be sure they are ok with it. If there is any uncertainty then don't be honest about what you think, just give the standard advice like "Just be yourself" or "You are wonderful, just haven't found the right one yet!". The alternative is to just be brutally honest and that way filter out friends who aren't ok with it. It might hurt a bit, but if you value this kind of communication over having many friends it could be worth it. Just don't do this at your job since you will likely get fired or managed out.
  - filoleg 7y ago
    >The alternative is to just be brutally honest and that way filter out friends who aren't ok with it. I found the inverse to be even more valuable. Finding friends who are not afraid to be brutally honest with you when the situation calls for it is difficult, but worth it so much. Just make sure you actually can receive this kind of criticism first without taking it as a personal attack.
  - Madmallard 7y ago
    Lying is bad
    - leetcrew 7y ago
      yes and no. the actual content of a conversation is often not the literal meaning of the words. many conversations are actually meaningless, but serve to anchor participants in the script. when the cashier says "hi, how are you?" and you say "alright, how about you?" even though you feel awful, this is not really lying; it's just a choreographed handshake that begins the transaction. in the stereotypical "does this dress make me look fat?" conversation, the person is (probably) not asking whether her partner think she looks fat. the actual content here is usually a request for reassurance. even if the partner does think she looks fat, "no, of course not" isn't really a lie; it's just satisfying the subtextual request. if on the other hand, she says "I have a meeting with some executives today, does this outfit work?", she is looking for a literal answer and responding with reassurance would be unhelpful.

geoffreyhale 7y ago

Empathy

throwaway07Ju19 7y ago

I've taken this even further. I no longer correct any factual mistakes or misspoken words unless the person making this error is either a student or someone who reads. Even then it may be best to not say anything.

x2f10 7y ago
> or someone who reads. Can you please elaborate? I don't follow.
- therealcamino 7y ago
  Often, mispronouncing a word means you've seen it in print, but haven't heard it said aloud. So I've heard some people say that they mentally frame it not as an embarrassing mistake but as a sign that the speaker reads a lot.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - rubidium 7y ago
    Totally me. I’ve read far more than I’ll ever hear. And I’m terrible at pronouncing things correctly because it’s almost pure visual memory.
    - kungtotte 7y ago
      Also, to be fair, some words are just plain pronounced wrong. Hyperbole Epitome Worcestershire They break the phonetic rules of the language and you're kind of expected to memorize it and get on with it.
  - solipsism 7y ago
    Yeah but the qualification "unless it's someone who reads" is obviously wrong. Lots of people read.
  - tapland 7y ago

ritchiea 7y ago

This is a good start. I would strongly recommend focusing on listening and asking questions when a friend comes to you with a problem or something on their mind. People universally want to be heard and understood. Offer emotional support, if by some chance you really think your friend is in the wrong, that person probably needs to be lovingly nudged rather than abrasively confronted. Occasionally people do legitimately want your advice & perspective and to be careful about it you can precede it with "would you like to hear my perspective/advice?"

x2f10 7y ago

You are spot on. I have had to learn this multiple times. If the person is not willing to accept the observation with open arms (hint: most are not), you will only push the person away. However, I can't help but see the small irony in your reply. >[do not] give unsolicited advice to friends, family, acquaintances, or even strangers >one dear friend [gave me unsolicited advice which helped]

hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
I think the standard psycho-therapeutic "tell them how it makes you feel" advice applies here and accounts for the difference. It's one thing to give unsolicited advice to someone. It's quite another to tell a close friend "Look, I need to tell you something important because I care about you. When you start telling me all the ways I should change to be a 'better person', it really makes me feel bad, and makes me not want to hang around you. It certainly doesn't motivate me to actually make any of your suggested changes."
- leetcrew 7y ago
  I don't really think unsolicited advice is even that bad usually. if you see someone struggling with a task and offer a good tip, they usually appreciate it. when someone starts venting about a problem, they are (implicitly) asking for something other than advice: usually just a kind ear. this is basically the worst moment to start offering advice.

deleted 7y ago

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rollerboi 7y ago

I've been working on this since I noticed it in myself a few years back. It's really difficult because I'm the "problem-solver," but I'm also the person that people want to vent to. So I've come to realize - After a friend/coworker shares something that they're sad/angry about, my standard MO is: 1) Say something like "Wow, that must really feel terrible. I'm sorry to hear that!" (I always feel the need to add more to this statement, but it's better off said with a light touch and not heavy-handed.) Then, 2) "I feel like I was in a similar situation a few months ago when..." Important rule about this step - this statement is NOT to be a 1-upper. You're not saying this to proclaim that your situation from the past is more significant/worse than their situation. You're saying this because it helps your friend/colleague understand that they're not alone in how they're feeling, and their feelings are (generally-speaking) justified. Also - You don't talk about what you did to solve the issue. You talk about how you felt, etc. Be vulnerable, be open, and the person venting to you will respond similarly. Finally, 3) Ask "So what are you gonna do about it?" This kinda turns its head on the status-quo. Usually, this is the time you start explaining "Well here's what I did in my situation!" But that's not what you want here. Instead, you're asking the person if they've thought of a plan to tackle the issue. If you've established a "safe space" to discuss the topic, they feel more open about sharing their plan to resolve the problem, even if they don't have a plan and have to come up with it on the spot. Then, more likely than not, they'll ask "What do you think?" At this point, you're free to let your problem-solving self run wild, assuming that you don't then consider your friend/colleague a "broken piece of code begging to be fixed."

pjanoman 7y ago
If a friend/coworker shares something that they're sad/angry about, sometimes they're not asking for advice. Sometimes they just want someone to relate to them and their struggles. #3 can sometimes be a detractor because, once again, you need to wait for them to ask for advice and not just come in with your own advice/assuming that they are even asking for help. Venting emotions != Asking for help
- ljm 7y ago
  Yes and no. When you ask “so what do you want to do about it?”, you get no as an answer. “I was just venting man” is a legit response, so it’s all fair enough. You can take it from there. Let them vent, you can only vent so much.

bytematic 7y ago

I rarely even believe in "advice", mostly people will just know and do what they want. The collection of learning from their experiences informs those decisions nearly 100%.

OscarCunningham 7y ago

You noted the irony that you're giving us advice about not giving advice. But there's actually a double irony because you're giving advice about not giving advice due to your friend giving you advice about not giving advice.

mc3 7y ago
The problem with online forums! In real life you can check if the person wants advice: do a "meta" offer of advice and back off if they don't want it. But on a public forum you need to put it out there. If HN had a spoiler feature that might help as you could make the advice shown on click.
hnick 7y ago
I noticed this too. I think that as a fellow advice-giver problem-fixer, I actually welcome unsolicited advice if it's useful. That's basically why I give it - since I'd like to get it. So the friend probably realised that.
rypskar 7y ago
The difference, as I see it, is between giving a general advice and giving advice as a response to someone venting about something. There is no problem with telling, "I have learned that X", or "in my experience X is a good thing to do when Y". The problem is when you answer with, "you should do X" when someone tell you about a problem they have without asking for help with solving the problem. It is even a difference between me saying something like: "The way this work in javascript sucks", which clearly is venting. And: "the way this work in javascript is so confusing, can you help me understand it?" Someone writing a blog-post about how this work is of course also advice, but not as a direct answer to someone venting about it. Meta, I know the sentence structure wasn't the best, but I don't want help with improving it right now

journalctl 7y ago

Sometimes people just want someone to listen. Sometimes there’s nothing else you can do.

08-15 7y ago
Sometimes people just want someone to blame. If you listen, you might become that someone.
- journalctl 7y ago
  Extend a little empathy once in a while. I promise people aren’t out to get you nearly as much as you seemingly believe.
  - 08-15 7y ago
    In actual experience, the people in question weren't "out to get me". They complained about things going wrong (due to their own actions), and I listened. Now their failures are my fault, according to some bizarre logic I can't understand, or so I heard through the grapevine. I don't think any malicious intent was involved. They just tried to protect their fragile egos, and I was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Also, I was stupid enough to listen.

wisty 7y ago

In Chinese culture, there's a big thing about your true friends being the ones who will tell you when you're wrong. A coworker, on the other hand, is not your responsibility, it's their life they're screwing up. Of course, that doesn't mean people like it. Personally, I will eventually give advice to people if they're venting. I'll make it polite, of course. If they don't want to fix their shit, then I'm not obliged to listen to it.

thisisnico 7y ago
The best advice I've ever been given is when I didn't ask. Honestly trying to please people doesn't always help them out. Being the bad guy can help them more than sulking with them. A good friend will care more about you than what you think of them.
- procombo 7y ago
  This exactly. I spent most of my professional career actively SEEKING feedback at every turn. So it's kind of a relief when someone offers "free" advice, even when it's personal. While it's rarely very useful, and sometimes annoying, it's not something people expect me to be offended about. If it's really not that useful the conversation changes quickly. It's usually just a window into another's frame of mind. I welcome it.
b0rsuk 7y ago
In Poland, we have a proverb "One gets to know his true friends when he's poor." A true friend will be with you in times of need, a false one will break ties.
- jwilk 7y ago
  Many languages have similar sayings: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/a_friend_in_need_is_a_friend_indeed https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/a_friend_in_need_is_a_friend_...

benburleson 7y ago

This is especially important with your spouse/partner/significant other. At the beginning of our relationship, I can't tell you how many times I heard, "I'm not asking for you to solve my problem, I just want you to listen!" It can be frustrating, I know, but just shut up and be there for the person that just needs you to be there.

baroffoos 7y ago
Its easier to just date someone who likes having problems solved.

lawn 7y ago

I've started to ask my girlfriend if "she wants me to solve her problem" or just "want me to listen" quite often. If you tend to fall into this trap, like I do, I can really recommend this approach.

system2 7y ago
And how does she respond to you usually?
- chubbyrabbit 7y ago
  "I just want you to understand"
- lawn 7y ago
  Almost always she just wants me to listen.

dsalzman 7y ago

100x this

randomsearch 7y ago

Thank you. Honestly, this is something I already learnt but I hearing it with such clarity from a stranger makes me feel like I’ll stick to it better. I am a “fixer” and it’s no surprise I code :-/

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LVB 7y ago

One instance of this I've struggled with (mainly b/c online comms is hard) is when people publicly post that they're annoyed about a confusing thing. "OMG why does it take 10 clicks to do X". This often prompts solutions ("If you turn on Y, then it will only take 2 clicks"), but can sometimes then be followed by irritated rebuttals ("Yes yes I know it's configurable but the point is..."). On the one hand I get the desire to just vent. But if you're going to post certain types of problems (esp technical) very publicly, IMO the expectation should be for unsolicited feedback, especially since others might benefit. Nonetheless, I still usually err on the side of not replying.

orblivion 7y ago
I can see myself being one of these irritated people. More than once, I've posted (maybe not even on Twitter; maybe on a support channel of some sort) something like "why did it take me 30 minutes to figure out how to do X?" And people, particularly the developers or people in the community, will reply with "just do Y and Z and you can do X". This irritates me because I didn't say "I can't do X!", I said "it took me 30 minutes to figure out how to do X". I.e, a usability problem, not a functionality problem. And the fact that it doesn't register to them that this is what I'm complaining about is all the more irritating ("yes I know, but the point is..." from your example), because it feeds into my bias that they have a blind spot about their own UI. As to whether I'm just venting, I suppose I imagine that on Twitter the developers might hear my complaints. (And yes, as such I should always remind myself to keep my complaint relatively respectful for this reason).

ljm 7y ago

If this is important to you, I strongly recommend you to explore short courses on active listening and coaching. As part of the process you learn that you’re not there to offer solutions, you’re there to listen and let those people find their own solution. You know, like the rubber duck.

robocat 7y ago

> not give unsolicited advice to friends, family, acquaintances, or even strangers. I strongly disagree here. Friends should try and help friends IF they have the skills to do so. And we should all try and learn how, while recognising our limitations (I'm an engineer stereotype so I don't pretend to myself I am very skilled). I agree that knowing when to keep your mouth shut is obligatory, and I completely agree it is extremely difficult to help without alienating. You should know some people who do have the skills to gently and successfully help others, often older and less obvious. I personally try and learn that skill by copying their tact and non-judgement. Beware that many people completely lack the skills even though their job should need it (I've seen nurses, psychologists, social workers etc with nearly zero ability - Dunning Kruger?). > People will ask for advice if they really want it Yet there are plenty of counter-examples, especially when people lack the insight to even see their own problems. > I’ve lost friends over this I've risked losing friends over this when I've felt strongly about it. Take time to myself to think about whatever the issue is. Losing a friend can be better than not trying to help a friend. Acquantances are different: personally I let most people do what they will - who am I to judge their path? How can I help if I don't know them well, and I am not around as needed? I guess there are people that can and do help in a short encounter, but either they are uncommon or I don't recognise the skill.

golemiprague 7y ago

Why are you so extreme, sometimes people just want to vent and want some sympathy, mainly true for women but also for guys in cases. Sometimes they do want advice even when they don't ask, sometimes the advice itself can be soothing even if not act upon. Social queue are not even the right thing to do always except from confirming to the social norm itself. Women do it all the time, they say the "right" thing and then you will hear from the rest of them how saying those "right" things elevate the women who said it to a "bitch", because they sense that it is not what she said that matters but the underlying feelings she conveyed. The bottom line is, the whole thing is much more nuanced.

Phenomenit 7y ago

Yeah, I struggle with this a lot. My life is so focused on problem-solving that my mind doesn't generate anything else. Sure I can say a few empty words of empathy and sympathy but that leaves a lot of empty air to fill and using tools is all I got and I can't remember a time when I wasn't like this.

cliffdover 7y ago

I'm taking notes.

D_Alex 7y ago
...Cliff's Notes?

AnimalMuppet 7y ago

With my wife, when she was upset about something, I'd tell her how to fix it. That... didn't go well. Eventually, I learned to just let her talk, and for me to say "Uh huh", for about five minutes. Then I could tell her how to fix the problem. But I had to listen for five minutes first. Note well: Five minutes worked for me talking to my wife. For person X talking to person Y, the correct time may range from 0 to infinity.

TeMPOraL 7y ago
Same here. I learned the hard way that I have to pay the entry fee of listening for 5-10 minutes and affirming emotions before I'm allowed to offer solutions. This wasn't immediately obvious for me, because in my case, the optimal listening time is 0 - if I didn't want actionable advice or knew how to solve a problem, I wouldn't be bringing it up in the first place.
- zozbot234 7y ago
  At it's most basic, it is simply a matter of trust. If the other person doesn't trust you not to attack their emotional stance, then by listening for a few minutes and acknowledging that you're willing to do so, you signal to them that you aren't going to do that.
- jimmaswell 7y ago
  Why are men expected to be the only ones who have to put in any effort and make any changes in this situation?
  - AnimalMuppet 7y ago
    Partly because, in that situation, I'm the one who's not upset. I'm not the one who's on the verge of tears. I therefore am probably more able to make the adjustment at that moment.
    - humanrebar 7y ago

abnry 7y ago

To refine this, it's not necessarily about giving advice unsolicited, but minimizing the personhood and agency of the person you are giving advice to. Sometimes giving unsolicited advice is the best thing a friend can do, but you need to do it in the right circumstances and in the right way. Anyone who receives unsolicited advice often has reason to believe that the advice giver (a) doesn't truly understand the issue at hand (b) cares more about themselves being the giver of information than it actually helping. Before you give advice, you need to make sure you've established trust. One way of doing this is to actively listen and communicate back what you understand. Many social problems involve an emotional aspect, which is why many people recommend acknowledging the emotions of another person. Spewing a ton of information without listening doesn't build trust. And if you present it as something they SHOULD do, versus something they have the OPTION of choosing, that minimizes their agency. People don't like to be bossed around. The reason why your comment is no big deal on this forum is that you haven't targeted anyone personally, so nobody feels like you are misunderstanding their personal circumstances or that you are trying to trump their agency.

badrabbit 7y ago

Not only that,but people take offense at factual analysis. If I present a fact and reasoning on why I consider it a fact, regardless of how unpleasant it might be I expect people to not take it personally and either contest my reasoning or accept/ignore what I said. However, being correct does not mean I shouldn't be sensitive to my audience. For example, if someone is a flat earther and I tell them why I think they are wrong, the more reasonable my argument is, the more they take it personally and get hurt because they tie their worth and value to their beliefs on those subjects. Avoid people that can't stand facts? Isolation sucks.

humanrebar 7y ago
Most of the hand wringing about advice here is overblown. Definitely pay attention to the audience. If they're bored or off-put by advice, stop it. Maybe slip an apology in. But part of being yourself, (generally what people advise!) is being OK with some people not enjoying your approach. Other people will enjoy a nice troubleshooting session and they'll stick around.
edmundsauto 7y ago
I recently read a book called Mindful Communication that uses a red/yellow/green light model for understanding the state of mind of the other person. In a discussion, there's a relationship; relationships are not fact-based, or in a vacuum. You have to take the immediate context as an input as well, to understand how receptive the other person is. Or not. However, if the concern is to state facts, then it's not really a communication because it ignores the reception and betrays the actual intention of the fact-stater.

mc3 7y ago

It is probably better to offer "if you need some help with X I have some experience with it". If they come back to you, you are then free to give advice. Otherwise shut up!

deleted 7y ago

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Invictus0 7y ago

I doubt that this is really your problem; more likely that you're trying to fix people in a grating way. Try saying something like "have you ever considered ___" and asking if they'd like to learn more.

cambalache 7y ago

So he gave you unsolicited advice.

ijiiijji1 7y ago

Boundaries are the bigger point. What's funny is I see on Steve Lehto's YT vids that he says random non-doctors diagnose him with all kinds of fatal ailments in spite of him recently running a marathon. Lmao!

deleted 7y ago

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m463 7y ago

This goes double in some situations. When somebody has lost a loved one, never say "I know just how you feel, blah blah". In fact, this is when you MUST say you can't imagine how they feel. Then listen.

jimmaswell 7y ago

I'd rather just not talk to someone like that so if they don't want to be friends anymore over being suggested a mechanic when having car issues or something then good. There's a youtube video about those kind of crazies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg

starpilot 7y ago

Unsolicited advice feels like criticism. It almost never is intended as such, but that's often how it feels. It's also almost always self-serving; the advisor wants to be a hero, and the recipient picks up on this and ends up feeling alone. Really recommend the book Messages: The Communications Skills Book by McKay.

humanrebar 7y ago
I think that's overgeneralized. "If you cut across on Maple, you can skip that slow light on Main Street." "Nice. I'll try that next time."

Ixiaus 7y ago

I'm 33 and I wish I learned this a long time ago (I started realizing I did this 4 years ago and it took a while for it to sink in how much people dislike unsolicited advice). I think, for me, it comes from a deep desire and need to be "noticed" and when I am observing someone or listening to someone and there is an opportunity for me to start "fixing" I feel this compulsive urge to do so. I've started telling myself: just STFU. STFU, let them talk, and if after talking they open the door for feedback or thoughts or observations share them, otherwise they only want someone to acknowledge what's going on for them. Unsolicited advice is also really vicious the more I've thought about it, you're robbing someone of the opportunity to figure things out for themselves, even if you've figured it out yourself or you have a great way of doing things, most people will and should figure things out on their own (and those that want to improve will open themselves up to feedback).

jlawson 7y ago

The other side of this is expressed in the classic comedy video, "It's Not About the Nail" (1:41). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg

bigred100 7y ago

Many people view this as wanting to help solve a problem. Many people it in a much less benign manner, and in fact view it as a possible sign of pride, arrogance, and (past a certain point or in extreme cases) delusion on the part of the speaker if they keep trying to give advice on matters where they aren’t qualified, or without giving the right attention to the context, or taking into account other issues they may not be aware of.

baroffoos 7y ago
The last part seems on point. I imagine a lot of advice people give is pretty obvious and the person with the problem has already considered it but can't action it because of some other reason the advice giver didn't think of and the person giving advice is sick of having to explain why all of the suggestions given will not work.

topmonk 7y ago

Sounds like the people you hang out with are narcissistic assholes. Maybe they have something to do with your predicament.

majani 7y ago

This is very hard, especially when you make ground-breaking strides in life and notice someone making the same mistakes you made previously. I personally had the epiphany last year that a woman's attraction to you cannot be bought or negotiated. It's a conscious effort to keep my mouth shut when seeing other men breaking their backs trying to buy their way into a woman's heart with wild experiences and fancy gifts.

joelbluminator 7y ago

There's the other side of this; If you're a constant complainer and you don't want to hear other people's advice or perspective - but just want them to commiserate with you, take it into account that it requires a lot of patience, energy and good intention from the other person to contain you - especially if you're constantly doing this. Complaining can easily become addictive, by which point you will see the whole world negatively, and might push those around you further away.

rsp1984 7y ago

I can relate to this 100%. The funny thing is though, I actually like it when friends give me candid unsolicited advice -- of course as long as it's communicated respectfully and not in a condescending manner. I take it as a sign that someone is more than superficially interested in the interaction with me, and it helps me understand other people's viewpoints. “look, I have to tell you something really really important” See, this is what I mean. In that case it was your friend giving you unsolicited advice and it sounds like it was actually important advice to receive and your life improved as a consequence. Do you now like your friend less?

dspillett 7y ago

> I’ve lost friends over this I've stopped helping, or even started avoiding, some "friends" because of this. Of course some tact is needed, and I've sometimes got that wrong. You have to properly listen before making suggestions, perhaps you need to ask questions first too to make sure you actually really understand, and definitely watch for signs (or explicit mentions) that advice/solutions are not wanted at this point (sometimes people just need to sound it out, to help get things in order in their own heads), and don't give definitive sounding advice when you aren't as sure as you sound, and sometimes great care needs to be given to your wording/intonation (lest advice be confused for judgement), but if after all that I make a suggestion and get my face bitten off, I am not the dick in that situation. An actual quote, yelled before storming off: "oh, that is just like you, trying to solve everything". Damn right that is just like me, the me you know well. If someone I care about has a problem in front of me then yes I'll try help them solve it. If you don't like that, then making me not care is not particularly difficult - screaming "oh, that is just like you, trying to solve everything", storming off, and not offering any apology at all afterwards, is an effective step in that process. Of course I need to be aware that how I react to problems may not be what other people want, and I'm not afraid to admit that empathy is a trait/skill I am sometimes not as strong in as I would like to be. But accepting that other people are different should work both ways.

mnsc 7y ago
> If someone I care about has a problem in front of me then yes I'll try help them solve it. You should read about the triforce. http://thebetaman.com/2017/09/26/the-triforce-of-communication/ http://thebetaman.com/2017/09/26/the-triforce-of-communicati...
arthurmerlin 7y ago
What happens when people tell you about problems that require experts in a specific area to solve, and you are not an expert in that area? Do you still try to help? Like I will tell my friends and family about problems I am having at work because they are my friends and family and I assume that they care about how my life is going. If they are able to provide solutions, I will not rule it out for them. But most likely they are not because they have different jobs. When people attempt to give advice on things they don't know about, I assume they are more interested in appearing smart than my well being.

doomjunky 7y ago

Giving advice is a domination game Ref: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20752088 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20752088

mason_jake 7y ago

I was told last year I can be way too optimistic / silver-lining-finding in negative situations. I used to always look for the solution to a problem as opposed to providing whatever the sharer of that problem wanted (usually validation/assurance). It has been somewhat difficult to turn off that "always helping" part of me - and to be frank it will probably never go away completely which I don't think is a bad thing - but substantial progress has been made.

tuesdayrain 7y ago

The advice people give is often the advice they wish someone told them.

manuel_w 7y ago

Yes. "Ein ungefragter Rat ist ein Schlag." Unfortunately, in english, it doesn't rhyme that nicely: "An undemanded advice is a punch." (I seriously doubt that "undemanded" is the best translation for "ungefragt", but you get the idea.) When feel like people would benefit from advice to the extent that not giving it would be unfriendly/selfish/whatever itself, I try to follow following guidelines: * Refraining from using "you did", "you said", "you <whatever", but instead choosing something like "I read that as", "I interpreted it this way". * Not implying what the other one meant, but instead saying something like "when I did it the way you did, I did it because of xy. Only later I learned that I was wrong, and people didn't actually mean it that way." That puts you onto the same level as the person you are talking to. Even if the other person takes what you say as accusation, you are accusing yourself of the same, so it's less bad. Plus, there is still the emergency exit for the other person to say "well, actually my reasons for stating it this way are entirely different". I hope you get what I mean.

RmDen 7y ago
I would probably use unasked instead of undemanded
arendtio 7y ago
I know it as "Ratschläge sind auch Schläge." which could be translated as "Advice is also punishment" In German it becomes obvious as the word "Schläge" (punishment/beating/plural of punch) is part of the word "Ratschläge" (advice).
cmbailey 7y ago
advice unrequested is like a punch ...conveys the meaning of the German words best to me. It's funny how meaning of words in one language doesn't map cleanly to another.

dennisgorelik 7y ago

The most important reason why I give unsolicited advice -- is to get feedback on my own advice (what mistakes does my advice contain?) If a person does not want to discuss my advice - they cannot give me feedback about my advice. If I cannot get that feedback - why do I need that person in my life in the first place? So when I give unsolicited advice -- I implicitly encourage people I do not need in my life - to disconnect from me. That frees my attention to people who are good with using advise as a tool for improvement.

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d0mine 7y ago

Your advice is to avoid giving advice. Isn't it self-contradictory?

2OEH8eoCRo0 7y ago

I lost a friend by giving unsolicited advice. They complained to me about being tired/feeling unwell for the umpteenth time and I suggested they take better care of themselves. I was lambasted for giving, "unsolicited advice."