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The first thing I learned is that Norwegians don't think about taxes the way we do. Whereas most Americans see taxes as a burden, Norwegian entrepreneurs tend t

by beoba 16y ago

The first thing I learned is that Norwegians don't think about taxes the way we do. Whereas most Americans see taxes as a burden, Norwegian entrepreneurs tend to see them as a purchase, an exchange of cash for services. "I look at it as a lifelong investment," says Davor Sutija, CEO of Thinfilm[...].

michael_dorfman 16y ago
Exactly. I've been living in Norway for over a decade, and I've never heard anyone complain about their taxes, or paying $9/gallon for gas.
- dantheman 16y ago
  I'm not from norway, but here's a few articles I found in a minute of searching: * http://www.newsinenglish.no/2010/08/24/more-tax-trouble-for-the-government/ http://www.newsinenglish.no/2010/08/24/more-tax-trouble-for-... * http://www.norwaypost.no/news/higher-taxes-for-many-pensioners.html http://www.norwaypost.no/news/higher-taxes-for-many-pensione... I assume these don't represent the general view, but it does show that at least some people in norway dislike the level of taxation.
  - michael_dorfman 16y ago
    I'm sure they exist-- I just haven't crossed paths with any, in 13 years here.
- tallanvor 16y ago
  Oh, come on, I hear it all the time. Generally they're either Americans or support the FrP (the so-called "Progress Party").
  - michael_dorfman 16y ago
    Must be different social circles. I don't know any FrP types, but I do know some other Americans, and I've yet to hear any complain.
    - tallanvor 16y ago
      Probably, especially considering I'm fairly sure we've never met. :) Don't get me wrong, the Americans I talk to regularly (and work with) aren't complaining about this, but if you get enough foreigners in a room together, there always seem to be a few who like to complain about taxes. As for the FrP, the ones I know tend to be younger, and while they don't mind complaining about taxes, the real reason they tend towards the FrP is racism, even when they'd rather not admit it.
- awt 16y ago
  What do you do in Norway? How did you come to live there?
dantheman 16y ago
If that was what they truly thought then there would be no reason to use force to collect taxes, they could just have a recommended donation and collect that. For some reason, I don't think that would work. This form of mental gymnastics, is very comparable to Nietzsche's analysis of the slave morality - where one alters their values in reaction oppression, so that it becomes moral, or even desirable, to act in a subservient way.
- beoba 16y ago
  Let's not forget that if it was such a bad deal, they could vote to change things. When's the last time a "slave", using your words, had a vote? But it takes more than perks to keep a worker motivated in Norway. In a country with low unemployment and generous unemployment benefits, a worker's threat to quit is more credible than it is in the United States, giving workers more leverage over employers. [...] "You can't just treat them like machines," [Bjorn Holte, founder and CEO of bMenu] says. "If you do, they'll be gone." This is "slavery"?
  - dantheman 16y ago
    Because a minority loses out in a democracy, they can either adapt and accept the situation or struggle to change it. Often times it's easier to just change ones own position than to actually do something, that most likely will not succeed and if it does provides limited benefit - the ROI isn't worth it. For example, I think the taxes are too high: 1. I can complain all the time, and be miserable. 2. I can work to change it - but lets say it takes me 10 hours a week to make any dent at all, and I'll only save 10k -- not worth it. 3. I can wish that it was lower, but do nothing and just live my life as it is. Though, I may feel anger or frustration - negatively impacting my life. or lastly 4. I can change my position - I guess the taxes are good, I get this stuff that I need, etc. Now I'm happy with my current situation and don't have any need to change it. By changing my perspective I've removed a source of pain in my life, even though it still exists -- I am no longer consciously aware of it. A little bit more on the concept of slave morality, it applies to Nietzsche's critique of Christianity: "By saying humility is voluntary, slave morality avoids admitting that their humility was in the beginning forced upon them by a master. Biblical principles of turning the other cheek, humility, charity, and pity are the result of universalizing the plight of the slave onto all humankind, and thus enslaving the masters as well." [1] He argues that in early Christianity instead of glorifying standing up to their oppressors, which was difficult and fraught with danger, that they glorified being subservient - when the master hits you turn the other cheek, don't defend yourself [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master-slave_morality http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master-slave_morality

by beoba 16y ago

michael_dorfman 16y ago

Exactly. I've been living in Norway for over a decade, and I've never heard anyone complain about their taxes, or paying $9/gallon for gas.

dantheman 16y ago
I'm not from norway, but here's a few articles I found in a minute of searching: * http://www.newsinenglish.no/2010/08/24/more-tax-trouble-for-the-government/ http://www.newsinenglish.no/2010/08/24/more-tax-trouble-for-... * http://www.norwaypost.no/news/higher-taxes-for-many-pensioners.html http://www.norwaypost.no/news/higher-taxes-for-many-pensione... I assume these don't represent the general view, but it does show that at least some people in norway dislike the level of taxation.
- michael_dorfman 16y ago
  I'm sure they exist-- I just haven't crossed paths with any, in 13 years here.
tallanvor 16y ago
Oh, come on, I hear it all the time. Generally they're either Americans or support the FrP (the so-called "Progress Party").
- michael_dorfman 16y ago
  Must be different social circles. I don't know any FrP types, but I do know some other Americans, and I've yet to hear any complain.
  - tallanvor 16y ago
    Probably, especially considering I'm fairly sure we've never met. :) Don't get me wrong, the Americans I talk to regularly (and work with) aren't complaining about this, but if you get enough foreigners in a room together, there always seem to be a few who like to complain about taxes. As for the FrP, the ones I know tend to be younger, and while they don't mind complaining about taxes, the real reason they tend towards the FrP is racism, even when they'd rather not admit it.
awt 16y ago
What do you do in Norway? How did you come to live there?

dantheman 16y ago

If that was what they truly thought then there would be no reason to use force to collect taxes, they could just have a recommended donation and collect that. For some reason, I don't think that would work. This form of mental gymnastics, is very comparable to Nietzsche's analysis of the slave morality - where one alters their values in reaction oppression, so that it becomes moral, or even desirable, to act in a subservient way.

beoba 16y ago
Let's not forget that if it was such a bad deal, they could vote to change things. When's the last time a "slave", using your words, had a vote? But it takes more than perks to keep a worker motivated in Norway. In a country with low unemployment and generous unemployment benefits, a worker's threat to quit is more credible than it is in the United States, giving workers more leverage over employers. [...] "You can't just treat them like machines," [Bjorn Holte, founder and CEO of bMenu] says. "If you do, they'll be gone." This is "slavery"?
- dantheman 16y ago
  Because a minority loses out in a democracy, they can either adapt and accept the situation or struggle to change it. Often times it's easier to just change ones own position than to actually do something, that most likely will not succeed and if it does provides limited benefit - the ROI isn't worth it. For example, I think the taxes are too high: 1. I can complain all the time, and be miserable. 2. I can work to change it - but lets say it takes me 10 hours a week to make any dent at all, and I'll only save 10k -- not worth it. 3. I can wish that it was lower, but do nothing and just live my life as it is. Though, I may feel anger or frustration - negatively impacting my life. or lastly 4. I can change my position - I guess the taxes are good, I get this stuff that I need, etc. Now I'm happy with my current situation and don't have any need to change it. By changing my perspective I've removed a source of pain in my life, even though it still exists -- I am no longer consciously aware of it. A little bit more on the concept of slave morality, it applies to Nietzsche's critique of Christianity: "By saying humility is voluntary, slave morality avoids admitting that their humility was in the beginning forced upon them by a master. Biblical principles of turning the other cheek, humility, charity, and pity are the result of universalizing the plight of the slave onto all humankind, and thus enslaving the masters as well." [1] He argues that in early Christianity instead of glorifying standing up to their oppressors, which was difficult and fraught with danger, that they glorified being subservient - when the master hits you turn the other cheek, don't defend yourself [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master-slave_morality http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master-slave_morality