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I've been watching both For All Mankind (Ronald D. Moore, in which the Soviets beat the U.S. to the moon) and The Man in the High Castle (based on the P.K. Dick

I've been watching both For All Mankind (Ronald D. Moore, in which the Soviets beat the U.S. to the moon) and The Man in the High Castle (based on the P.K. Dick novel in which the Axis powers win WW II), and have generally always enjoyed alternate history fiction. So, I find myself wondering how this would have all played out if the Cold War hadn't ended and Soviet Union hadn't fallen apart before 1999 when Britain was required to turn HK over to the PRC.

hnarn 7y ago
Do you mean that it's reasonable to assume that the USSR wouldn't have backed China? Or what's the "alternate" part of this history?
- cgriswald 7y ago
  > Or what's the "alternate" part of this history? I'm not sure what you are asking. The alternate part is the part where the Soviet Union doesn't collapse a half decade before the handover of HK back to China. Would a Cold War Britain have really handed over HK? What does China look like without the West's influx of money for manufacturing? (Maybe that still happens.) If it leads to war, how does that play out? Is it another Korea/Vietnam or does it blossom into WW III? Does it end with a new lease or an armistice? If 9/11 still happens during this crisis, how does a Cold War world respond to it? A major part of such works is that they allow us to look at ourselves and our real history through a different light.
  - hnarn 7y ago
    I just think you're vastly overestimating the impact a still standing Soviet union would have on Hong Kong. My personal guess is that it would play out in about the same way.
  - bobthepanda 7y ago
    Western investment in China started in the ‘70e and ‘80s, led in part by Hong Kong firms. Negotiations over the Hong Kong handover were started by Margaret Thatcher in the ‘80s. The Sino-British Joint Declaration was signed in 1985. The Basic Law was ratified by 1990. The Cold War was not over when Hong Kong’s future was being negotiated.
bigpumpkin 7y ago
China and the Soviet Union were almost at war during the late 70s. Western relations with China were much better than today precisely because the Soviet Union was a common enemy.

hnarn 7y ago

Do you mean that it's reasonable to assume that the USSR wouldn't have backed China? Or what's the "alternate" part of this history?

cgriswald 7y ago
> Or what's the "alternate" part of this history? I'm not sure what you are asking. The alternate part is the part where the Soviet Union doesn't collapse a half decade before the handover of HK back to China. Would a Cold War Britain have really handed over HK? What does China look like without the West's influx of money for manufacturing? (Maybe that still happens.) If it leads to war, how does that play out? Is it another Korea/Vietnam or does it blossom into WW III? Does it end with a new lease or an armistice? If 9/11 still happens during this crisis, how does a Cold War world respond to it? A major part of such works is that they allow us to look at ourselves and our real history through a different light.
- hnarn 7y ago
  I just think you're vastly overestimating the impact a still standing Soviet union would have on Hong Kong. My personal guess is that it would play out in about the same way.
- bobthepanda 7y ago
  Western investment in China started in the ‘70e and ‘80s, led in part by Hong Kong firms. Negotiations over the Hong Kong handover were started by Margaret Thatcher in the ‘80s. The Sino-British Joint Declaration was signed in 1985. The Basic Law was ratified by 1990. The Cold War was not over when Hong Kong’s future was being negotiated.

bigpumpkin 7y ago

China and the Soviet Union were almost at war during the late 70s. Western relations with China were much better than today precisely because the Soviet Union was a common enemy.