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I lived in China for 5 years, most of the time in Xinjiang, and is sad how the media manipulates people in the west, you clearly have never been in XinJiang or

I lived in China for 5 years, most of the time in Xinjiang, and is sad how the media manipulates people in the west, you clearly have never been in XinJiang or in China at all. You can believe whatever you want and I'm sure most readers here will support you, because like you , they have been deceived. What is happening in Hong Kong is sad, I agree with you there, and something should be done by the US and their allies.But, Uighurs are one of the 56 ethnics groups of China, like Mongolians, Weiwer, ... not a nationality, and not the only Muslim ethnic group, there is no concentration camps or anything like that. Sorry. There are Uighurs terrorists in prison after the bomb car exploded in TianAnMen and the incident in Kunming's train station in 2013, that you probably dont know about, in the same way the US have Iraqis and afghans in Guantanamo... just because..... Good luck with your campaign, I'm sure people with join you and think you are the coolest guy in HN today. But I had to break it up to you... sorry

Miner49er 7y ago
It is whataboutism, but the U.S. is guilty of a lot of similar things that China is, not as bad in most cases, but I think it's fair to compare the Uyghurs to Guantanamo, the way we're treating immigrants at the border, or how discriminatory our justice system is towards black people. We have a higher percentage of people in jail then China by a lot (5x). Many of them are in jail for political/racial reasons (the Drug War, Immigration). We have the NSA spying on all of us. As well as Google, FB, etc. We treat our protestors horribly as well, look at what the FBI did to black rights protesters or look at how the Dakota Access pipeline protesters were treated. Don't get me wrong, I agree with Drew on this article, and I'd support a boycott, but in the words of someone I'm not a fan of: "Set your house in perfect order before you criticise the world."
- fastball 7y ago
  The Drug War is hardly political, and hardline immigration policies are not "racial".
  - Miner49er 7y ago
    "The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people," former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman told Harper's writer Dan Baum for the April cover story published Tuesday. "You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities," Ehrlichman said. "We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did." [1] Crack cocaine carried a much harsher sentence then Cocaine, a law that very clearly targeted black people. [2] Marijuana use is the same between white and black people, but black people are 3.73x more likely to be arrested for it.[3] [1] https://www.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-richard-nixon-drug-war-blacks-hippie/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-rich... [2] https://www.aclu.org/other/cracks-system-20-years-unjust-federal-crack-cocaine-law https://www.aclu.org/other/cracks-system-20-years-unjust-fed... [3] https://www.aclu.org/report/report-war-marijuana-black-and-white?redirect=criminal-law-reform/war-marijuana-black-and-white https://www.aclu.org/report/report-war-marijuana-black-and-w...
    - fastball 7y ago
      [1] Plenty of countries with homogenous populations have harsh drug laws, so it hardly seems like that was the only consideration, if at all. After all, Prohibition in the US happened a long time before 1968, and alcohol is arguably less destructive than heroin, and nobody was targeting hippies or black people with a ban on alcohol. [2] https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2018/06/14/_if_tough_anti-drug_laws_are_racist_blame_black_leaders_137273.html https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2018/06/14/_if_to... [3] Black people getting arrested at a higher rate doesn't make the policies racist. It either makes the cops racist (possible) or it means that there are other factors beyond skin color that are affecting the stats (most likely explanation).
      - tossAfterUsing 7y ago
feelthepress 7y ago
Take a moment and read about China's human rights violations: * Hundreds of human rights lawyers (not even dissidents, just the LAWYERS who defended people) were snatched by gestapo all over China in what is known as the 709 Crackdown [1]. * One of those lawyers, Wang Quanzhang was sentenced to 4.5 years [2] for "subversion of state power". But that's not enough. China actually went after Wang's 6-year-old son [3], forcing him out of his school and banning any other school from taking him in. * A dissident, Wang Bingzhang [4] was kidnapped by Chinese agents in Vietnam and sentenced to life in prison after a closed trial that lasted 1 day. * A man wore a t-shirt with the word "Xitler" on it and was disappeared [5]. Eventually he was tried for "subversion of state power" while barred from meeting with lawyers [6] * Another man, Wang Meiyu [7] hold up a placard calling for Xi’s resignation & democracy. He was arrested for "picking quarrels”. He ended up dead in custody. * A woman live streamed herself splashing ink on a Xi poster [8]. She was disappeared [9]. Her last social media update: "Right now there are a group of people wearing uniforms outside my door. I’ll go out after I change my clothes. I did not commit a crime. The people and groups that hurt me are the ones who are guilty". Later on there was report of her being sent to a psychiatric hospital [10] * After the ink-splash woman's disappearance her father made a series of broadcast to call attention to her plight. He ended up getting taken away by the police in the middle of a live stream [11] * 5 people associated with a Hong Kong bookstore that sold titles such as "Xi Jinping and His Six Women" were disappeared [12]. Only one managed to escape back to HK. He held a press briefing to tell the world about his kidnapping by China. He's now in exile in Taiwan. The other 4 are still somewhere in China. And, of course: * 1.5 million [13] Uyghurs rounded up in concentration camps * Genocide through forced abortions [14] on Uyghur women * Sexual torture [15] of Uyghur women such as rape & rubbing intimate parts with chili paste. * Leaked footage [16] of a large number of blindfolded Uyghurs shackled together * A Canadian journalist wanted to debunk reports of Chinese anti-Muslim repression so he went on a stage-managed show tour put on by China [17]. That means he only saw a fake Potemkin village that China actually thought was acceptable by Western standard. But the brutality of even this fake Potemkin village stunned him. Now imagine what's really happening in the real concentration camps where millions of Uyghurs are being held. Imagine how bad the true situation is. * Using minorities & political prisoners as free organ farms [18]. A doctor's eye witness account [19]: 'The prisoner was brought in, tied hand and foot, but very much alive. The army doctor in charge sliced him open from chest to belly button and exposed his two kidneys. Then the doctor ordered Zheng to remove the man’s eyeballs. Hearing that, the dying prisoner gave him a look of sheer terror, and Zheng froze. “I can’t do it,” he told the doctor, who then quickly scooped out the man’s eyeballs himself.' * Call for retraction of 400 Chinese scientific papers [20] amid fears organs came from Chinese prisoners * 15 Chinese studies [21] retracted due to fears they used Chinese prisoners' organs * Cultural genocide (and organ harvests, of course) [22]. A uyghur's testimony: "First, children were stopped from learning about the Quran, then from going to mosques. It was followed by bans on ramadan, growing beards, giving Islamic names to your baby, etc. Then our language was attacked – we didn’t get jobs if we didn’t know Mandarin. Our passports were collected, we were told to spy on each other, innocent Uyghur prisoners were killed for organ harvesting" * China is moving beyond Uyghur and cracking down on its model minority Hui Muslim. 'Afraid We Will Become The Next Xinjiang': China's Hui Muslims Face Crackdown [23]: "The same restrictions that preceded the Xinjiang crackdown on Uighur Muslims are now appearing in Hui-dominated regions. Hui mosques have been forcibly renovated or shuttered, schools demolished, and religious community leaders imprisoned. Hui who have traveled internationally are increasingly detained or sent to reeducation facilities in Xinjiang." Sources: [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/709_crackdown [2] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/28/wang-quanzhang-china-sentences-human-rights-lawyer-to-four-years-in-prison [3] https://chinachange.org/2019/09/06/imprisoned-lawyer-wang-quanzhangs-six-year-old-son-once-again-forced-out-of-school/ [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Bingzhang_(dissident) [5] https://www.hongkongfp.com/2016/11/03/young-chinese-activist-missing-after-sharing-plan-to-wear-xitler-t-shirt-on-cpc-anniversary-report/ [6] https://www.hongkongfp.com/2017/02/15/chinese-xitler-activist-trial-subversion-lawyers-barred-seeing/ [7] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/27/death-of-chinese-activist-in-police-custody-prompts-calls-for-investigation-into-torture [8] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9sF34fJwh0 [9] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/china-woman-dong-yaoqiong-disappears-spraying-ink-xi-jinping-a8455166.html [10] https://www.hongkongfp.com/2018/07/23/chinese-protester-splashed-ink-xi-jinping-poster-sent-psychiatric-hospital-report/ [11] https://www.hongkongfp.com/2018/07/14/police-interrupt-youtube-live-stream-father-missing-chinese-woman-splashed-ink-xi-jinping-photo/ [12] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causeway_Bay_Books_disappearances [13] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-xinjiang-rights/15-million-muslims-could-be-detained-in-chinas-xinjiang-academic-idUSKCN1QU2MQ [14] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/china-uighur-muslim-women-abortions-sexual-abuse-genocide-a9144721.html [15] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/china-uighur-muslim-women-abortions-sexual-abuse-genocide-a9144721.html [16] https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/d722aw/chinas_detention_of_uighurs_video_of_blindfolded/ [17] https://nationalpost.com/news/canadian-went-to-china-to-debunk-reports-of-anti-muslim-repression-but-was-shocked-by-treatment-of-uyghurs [18] https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/c1my5j/china_is_harvesting_organs_from_detainees_uk/ [19] https://nypost.com/2019/06/01/chinese-dissidents-are-being-executed-for-their-organs-former-hospital-worker-says/ [20] https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/feb/06/call-for-retraction-of-400-scientific-papers-amid-fears-organs-came-from-chinese-prisoners [21] https://www.newscientist.com/article/15-15-studies-retracted-due-to-fears-they-used-chinese-prisoners-organs/ [22] https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/china-uyghur-muslim-rules-laws-treatment-chinese-human-rights-religion-a8534161.html [23] https://www.npr.org/2019/09/26/763356996/afraid-we-will-become-the-next-xinjiang-chinas-hui-muslims-face-crackdown

Miner49er 7y ago

It is whataboutism, but the U.S. is guilty of a lot of similar things that China is, not as bad in most cases, but I think it's fair to compare the Uyghurs to Guantanamo, the way we're treating immigrants at the border, or how discriminatory our justice system is towards black people. We have a higher percentage of people in jail then China by a lot (5x). Many of them are in jail for political/racial reasons (the Drug War, Immigration). We have the NSA spying on all of us. As well as Google, FB, etc. We treat our protestors horribly as well, look at what the FBI did to black rights protesters or look at how the Dakota Access pipeline protesters were treated. Don't get me wrong, I agree with Drew on this article, and I'd support a boycott, but in the words of someone I'm not a fan of: "Set your house in perfect order before you criticise the world."

fastball 7y ago
The Drug War is hardly political, and hardline immigration policies are not "racial".
- Miner49er 7y ago
  "The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people," former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman told Harper's writer Dan Baum for the April cover story published Tuesday. "You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities," Ehrlichman said. "We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did." [1] Crack cocaine carried a much harsher sentence then Cocaine, a law that very clearly targeted black people. [2] Marijuana use is the same between white and black people, but black people are 3.73x more likely to be arrested for it.[3] [1] https://www.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-richard-nixon-drug-war-blacks-hippie/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-rich... [2] https://www.aclu.org/other/cracks-system-20-years-unjust-federal-crack-cocaine-law https://www.aclu.org/other/cracks-system-20-years-unjust-fed... [3] https://www.aclu.org/report/report-war-marijuana-black-and-white?redirect=criminal-law-reform/war-marijuana-black-and-white https://www.aclu.org/report/report-war-marijuana-black-and-w...
  - fastball 7y ago
    [1] Plenty of countries with homogenous populations have harsh drug laws, so it hardly seems like that was the only consideration, if at all. After all, Prohibition in the US happened a long time before 1968, and alcohol is arguably less destructive than heroin, and nobody was targeting hippies or black people with a ban on alcohol. [2] https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2018/06/14/_if_tough_anti-drug_laws_are_racist_blame_black_leaders_137273.html https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2018/06/14/_if_to... [3] Black people getting arrested at a higher rate doesn't make the policies racist. It either makes the cops racist (possible) or it means that there are other factors beyond skin color that are affecting the stats (most likely explanation).
    - tossAfterUsing 7y ago

feelthepress 7y ago

Take a moment and read about China's human rights violations: * Hundreds of human rights lawyers (not even dissidents, just the LAWYERS who defended people) were snatched by gestapo all over China in what is known as the 709 Crackdown [1]. * One of those lawyers, Wang Quanzhang was sentenced to 4.5 years [2] for "subversion of state power". But that's not enough. China actually went after Wang's 6-year-old son [3], forcing him out of his school and banning any other school from taking him in. * A dissident, Wang Bingzhang [4] was kidnapped by Chinese agents in Vietnam and sentenced to life in prison after a closed trial that lasted 1 day. * A man wore a t-shirt with the word "Xitler" on it and was disappeared [5]. Eventually he was tried for "subversion of state power" while barred from meeting with lawyers [6] * Another man, Wang Meiyu [7] hold up a placard calling for Xi’s resignation & democracy. He was arrested for "picking quarrels”. He ended up dead in custody. * A woman live streamed herself splashing ink on a Xi poster [8]. She was disappeared [9]. Her last social media update: "Right now there are a group of people wearing uniforms outside my door. I’ll go out after I change my clothes. I did not commit a crime. The people and groups that hurt me are the ones who are guilty". Later on there was report of her being sent to a psychiatric hospital [10] * After the ink-splash woman's disappearance her father made a series of broadcast to call attention to her plight. He ended up getting taken away by the police in the middle of a live stream [11] * 5 people associated with a Hong Kong bookstore that sold titles such as "Xi Jinping and His Six Women" were disappeared [12]. Only one managed to escape back to HK. He held a press briefing to tell the world about his kidnapping by China. He's now in exile in Taiwan. The other 4 are still somewhere in China. And, of course: * 1.5 million [13] Uyghurs rounded up in concentration camps * Genocide through forced abortions [14] on Uyghur women * Sexual torture [15] of Uyghur women such as rape & rubbing intimate parts with chili paste. * Leaked footage [16] of a large number of blindfolded Uyghurs shackled together * A Canadian journalist wanted to debunk reports of Chinese anti-Muslim repression so he went on a stage-managed show tour put on by China [17]. That means he only saw a fake Potemkin village that China actually thought was acceptable by Western standard. But the brutality of even this fake Potemkin village stunned him. Now imagine what's really happening in the real concentration camps where millions of Uyghurs are being held. Imagine how bad the true situation is. * Using minorities & political prisoners as free organ farms [18]. A doctor's eye witness account [19]: 'The prisoner was brought in, tied hand and foot, but very much alive. The army doctor in charge sliced him open from chest to belly button and exposed his two kidneys. Then the doctor ordered Zheng to remove the man’s eyeballs. Hearing that, the dying prisoner gave him a look of sheer terror, and Zheng froze. “I can’t do it,” he told the doctor, who then quickly scooped out the man’s eyeballs himself.' * Call for retraction of 400 Chinese scientific papers [20] amid fears organs came from Chinese prisoners * 15 Chinese studies [21] retracted due to fears they used Chinese prisoners' organs * Cultural genocide (and organ harvests, of course) [22]. A uyghur's testimony: "First, children were stopped from learning about the Quran, then from going to mosques. It was followed by bans on ramadan, growing beards, giving Islamic names to your baby, etc. Then our language was attacked – we didn’t get jobs if we didn’t know Mandarin. Our passports were collected, we were told to spy on each other, innocent Uyghur prisoners were killed for organ harvesting" * China is moving beyond Uyghur and cracking down on its model minority Hui Muslim. 'Afraid We Will Become The Next Xinjiang': China's Hui Muslims Face Crackdown [23]: "The same restrictions that preceded the Xinjiang crackdown on Uighur Muslims are now appearing in Hui-dominated regions. Hui mosques have been forcibly renovated or shuttered, schools demolished, and religious community leaders imprisoned. Hui who have traveled internationally are increasingly detained or sent to reeducation facilities in Xinjiang." Sources: [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/709_crackdown [2] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/28/wang-quanzhang-china-sentences-human-rights-lawyer-to-four-years-in-prison [3] https://chinachange.org/2019/09/06/imprisoned-lawyer-wang-quanzhangs-six-year-old-son-once-again-forced-out-of-school/ [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Bingzhang_(dissident) [5] https://www.hongkongfp.com/2016/11/03/young-chinese-activist-missing-after-sharing-plan-to-wear-xitler-t-shirt-on-cpc-anniversary-report/ [6] https://www.hongkongfp.com/2017/02/15/chinese-xitler-activist-trial-subversion-lawyers-barred-seeing/ [7] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/27/death-of-chinese-activist-in-police-custody-prompts-calls-for-investigation-into-torture [8] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9sF34fJwh0 [9] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/china-woman-dong-yaoqiong-disappears-spraying-ink-xi-jinping-a8455166.html [10] https://www.hongkongfp.com/2018/07/23/chinese-protester-splashed-ink-xi-jinping-poster-sent-psychiatric-hospital-report/ [11] https://www.hongkongfp.com/2018/07/14/police-interrupt-youtube-live-stream-father-missing-chinese-woman-splashed-ink-xi-jinping-photo/ [12] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causeway_Bay_Books_disappearances [13] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-xinjiang-rights/15-million-muslims-could-be-detained-in-chinas-xinjiang-academic-idUSKCN1QU2MQ [14] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/china-uighur-muslim-women-abortions-sexual-abuse-genocide-a9144721.html [15] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/china-uighur-muslim-women-abortions-sexual-abuse-genocide-a9144721.html [16] https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/d722aw/chinas_detention_of_uighurs_video_of_blindfolded/ [17] https://nationalpost.com/news/canadian-went-to-china-to-debunk-reports-of-anti-muslim-repression-but-was-shocked-by-treatment-of-uyghurs [18] https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/c1my5j/china_is_harvesting_organs_from_detainees_uk/ [19] https://nypost.com/2019/06/01/chinese-dissidents-are-being-executed-for-their-organs-former-hospital-worker-says/ [20] https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/feb/06/call-for-retraction-of-400-scientific-papers-amid-fears-organs-came-from-chinese-prisoners [21] https://www.newscientist.com/article/15-15-studies-retracted-due-to-fears-they-used-chinese-prisoners-organs/ [22] https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/china-uyghur-muslim-rules-laws-treatment-chinese-human-rights-religion-a8534161.html [23] https://www.npr.org/2019/09/26/763356996/afraid-we-will-become-the-next-xinjiang-chinas-hui-muslims-face-crackdown