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I always wonder what they will do if there is a big war (maybe one that affects the homeland which is something the US is not used to) and the contractors decid

I always wonder what they will do if there is a big war (maybe one that affects the homeland which is something the US is not used to) and the contractors decide fighting in this war is not good for business or they just want more money? Are they going to suspend IP laws and other contracts? It seems really weird that to have a military that’s dependent on other parties they can’t control. This structure works ok if you have wars in other countries with weak enemies and you are just wasting money. But what about a big war where the nation has to put all resources into the war effort?

jlawson 7y ago
They'll just nationalize the factories. Not just existing military factories - civilian infrastructure will be converted where possible. E.g. a car factory changes to making military vehicles. If necessary, guys with guns will arrive to ensure that production continues. Lots of historical references on this sort of thing from the WW2 era.
- marcoseliziario 7y ago
  Exactly. That's what happened in the WWII. This nice tesla factory? Well, we need some nice silent patrol vehicles mr Musk, but we need you to come out with some kind of composite armor for it in 60 days. If you can't do it, don't worry, we will take care of your factory for the duration, and when this is over you can have it again.
travisoneill1 7y ago
> a military that’s dependent on other parties they can’t control What makes you think the military can't control them?
- Ididntdothis 7y ago
  At what point are they taking control versus handing over tons of money as done in recent wars? Is there a procedure for that?
  - swagasaurus-rex 7y ago
    It's probably similar paying taxes versus being indicted on tax evasion charges.
pavel_lishin 7y ago
> Are they going to suspend IP laws and other contracts? "Welcome to the Army, and congratulations on being drafted. Here's what you'll be working on - the good news is that you're already well trained in the area."
cgriswald 7y ago
What would you do if your boss showed up and said he wasn't going to do anything to protect your family, home, and country from invaders because he wasn't going to make enough money doing it? They'd be lucky if the military showed up and took direct control before their own employees lynched them. But that would n ever happen because they'll make plenty of money and if the U.S. is ever invaded, pretty much everyone will become a nationalist.
ars 7y ago
> Are they going to suspend IP laws and other contracts? You don't need a war to do that, that's already the law. The government (not just the military) can force you to license them your patent: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_patent_use_(United_States) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_patent_use_(United_...
kakwa_ 7y ago
IP laws were partially suspended/taken over (with after the war compensations) during WWI. I'm thinking for example of Marconi's patents for wireless communication or also a few weapons design. As for the contractors, the story of hms Prince of Wales against Bismarck comes to mind, with contractors sailing into battle to help mitigate reliability with its guns. So there are precedents, in case of a dire need a state will enforce a deeper control over what is required to fight a war.
jessaustin 7y ago
But what about a big war where the nation has to put all resources into the war effort? USA will lose that war. Let's hope it doesn't happen. The only "big" wars we've fought (Revolutionary, 1812, Civil, WWII, arguably WWI) have seen us build up a military from among the citizenry, for wars in which citizens mostly believed. There was always initially huge turnover among the officer class, as large numbers of colonels and generals selected by wealth, seniority, and politicking were replaced by men of broader experience who could lead soldiers to win in battle. There was steady improvement in munitions over the course of those wars, as general techniques of American craft and industry were focused on the requirements of war. Perhaps most importantly, soldiers and sailors came from every American family at every level of society. Also, those armies won those wars. The standing army we have now has none of those characteristics. It spends vast sums in opaque fashion on increasingly specialized and fragile "weapons systems". It is saddled with an immense sclerotic immovable officer class. It shamelessly markets in misleading fashion to ensnare young people with limited options for its rank and file. Also, though it occasionally accomplishes a police action, the permanent American military loses all the "small" wars in which it engages, while slaughtering millions of innocents.

jlawson 7y ago

They'll just nationalize the factories. Not just existing military factories - civilian infrastructure will be converted where possible. E.g. a car factory changes to making military vehicles. If necessary, guys with guns will arrive to ensure that production continues. Lots of historical references on this sort of thing from the WW2 era.

marcoseliziario 7y ago
Exactly. That's what happened in the WWII. This nice tesla factory? Well, we need some nice silent patrol vehicles mr Musk, but we need you to come out with some kind of composite armor for it in 60 days. If you can't do it, don't worry, we will take care of your factory for the duration, and when this is over you can have it again.

travisoneill1 7y ago

> a military that’s dependent on other parties they can’t control What makes you think the military can't control them?

Ididntdothis 7y ago
At what point are they taking control versus handing over tons of money as done in recent wars? Is there a procedure for that?
- swagasaurus-rex 7y ago
  It's probably similar paying taxes versus being indicted on tax evasion charges.

pavel_lishin 7y ago

> Are they going to suspend IP laws and other contracts? "Welcome to the Army, and congratulations on being drafted. Here's what you'll be working on - the good news is that you're already well trained in the area."

cgriswald 7y ago

What would you do if your boss showed up and said he wasn't going to do anything to protect your family, home, and country from invaders because he wasn't going to make enough money doing it? They'd be lucky if the military showed up and took direct control before their own employees lynched them. But that would n ever happen because they'll make plenty of money and if the U.S. is ever invaded, pretty much everyone will become a nationalist.

ars 7y ago

> Are they going to suspend IP laws and other contracts? You don't need a war to do that, that's already the law. The government (not just the military) can force you to license them your patent: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_patent_use_(United_States) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_patent_use_(United_...

kakwa_ 7y ago

IP laws were partially suspended/taken over (with after the war compensations) during WWI. I'm thinking for example of Marconi's patents for wireless communication or also a few weapons design. As for the contractors, the story of hms Prince of Wales against Bismarck comes to mind, with contractors sailing into battle to help mitigate reliability with its guns. So there are precedents, in case of a dire need a state will enforce a deeper control over what is required to fight a war.

jessaustin 7y ago

But what about a big war where the nation has to put all resources into the war effort? USA will lose that war. Let's hope it doesn't happen. The only "big" wars we've fought (Revolutionary, 1812, Civil, WWII, arguably WWI) have seen us build up a military from among the citizenry, for wars in which citizens mostly believed. There was always initially huge turnover among the officer class, as large numbers of colonels and generals selected by wealth, seniority, and politicking were replaced by men of broader experience who could lead soldiers to win in battle. There was steady improvement in munitions over the course of those wars, as general techniques of American craft and industry were focused on the requirements of war. Perhaps most importantly, soldiers and sailors came from every American family at every level of society. Also, those armies won those wars. The standing army we have now has none of those characteristics. It spends vast sums in opaque fashion on increasingly specialized and fragile "weapons systems". It is saddled with an immense sclerotic immovable officer class. It shamelessly markets in misleading fashion to ensnare young people with limited options for its rank and file. Also, though it occasionally accomplishes a police action, the permanent American military loses all the "small" wars in which it engages, while slaughtering millions of innocents.