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Wow, if I'd had a situation like this when I was in defense I might still be there. Instead, I had managers old enough to be my father, no upward path until I

Wow, if I'd had a situation like this when I was in defense I might still be there. Instead, I had managers old enough to be my father, no upward path until I "put in my time", and an attitude that wanting to move around within the company was "disloyal" to my current management.

tnel77 7y ago
I’m sorry to hear that. The defense companies I’ve worked for, big and small, have fought to retain employees. Whether it be the end of a contract or just wanting to change the type of work you are doing, these companies fought to find you another position versus taking your clearance to a competitor.
JustSomeNobody 7y ago
I hope people don't fixate on this and see this as the issue: > Instead, I had managers old enough to be my father... This... > ... an attitude that wanting to move around within the company was "disloyal" to my current management. ... is bad management and bad company culture and are the reasons you get older managers who are inflexible and just riding out a paycheck. Those are the areas to fixate on and if you see it, leave. Nobody should have to work under those conditions. Working for an older manager shouldn't (and rarely is), in and of itself, be a red flag.
- wcunning 7y ago
  I think it's slightly more complicated. Having an older manager/supervisor is not a bad thing. Working in a department where you need to have put in 12 years to become a supervisor is a problem. The old automotive company I work for released a "strongly recommended" schedule of different responsibilities that an engineer should have held for what time to be considered a strong candidate for promotion. There was a similar document I heard about for going from supervisor to manager. Combined these schedules said that no one would ever work their way up from entry level to department head. Ever. Therefore the only way to get there is outside of the official system via office politics, and not being honest about that is pretty dysfunctional on its own. That said, a symptom of that is the number of supervisors and managers who have 30+ years in...
  - vonmoltke 7y ago
    > I think it's slightly more complicated. Having an older manager/supervisor is not a bad thing. Working in a department where you need to have put in 12 years to become a supervisor is a problem. Exactly. I was too brief with that point, but the issue is first-line managers, in some cases, having more experience than I had years of life at that point. It's an environment that seems to condemn people to life as a minor cog in a huge machine, where your opinions aren't respected and you have no hope of making it into any sort of management responsibility.
- vonmoltke 7y ago
  Yeah, I realize now I should have committed more words to explaining that part. An older manager per se was not a problem. It was that fact that every line manager had 15+ years of experience, and thus this level of tenure appeared to be a requirement to actually advance. It crushed any feelings of ambition, because there was literally nowhere to go even if the other management problems didn't exist.
Balgair 7y ago
The Silver Tsunami is not kind to DoD employment and to hiring managers. The young-uns look around, see nothing but old white dudes, and then head to anything resembling a FAANG. Livermore has had a heck of a problem with it. Even the 35+ year olds are trying to make like a banana.

tnel77 7y ago

I’m sorry to hear that. The defense companies I’ve worked for, big and small, have fought to retain employees. Whether it be the end of a contract or just wanting to change the type of work you are doing, these companies fought to find you another position versus taking your clearance to a competitor.

JustSomeNobody 7y ago

I hope people don't fixate on this and see this as the issue: > Instead, I had managers old enough to be my father... This... > ... an attitude that wanting to move around within the company was "disloyal" to my current management. ... is bad management and bad company culture and are the reasons you get older managers who are inflexible and just riding out a paycheck. Those are the areas to fixate on and if you see it, leave. Nobody should have to work under those conditions. Working for an older manager shouldn't (and rarely is), in and of itself, be a red flag.

wcunning 7y ago
I think it's slightly more complicated. Having an older manager/supervisor is not a bad thing. Working in a department where you need to have put in 12 years to become a supervisor is a problem. The old automotive company I work for released a "strongly recommended" schedule of different responsibilities that an engineer should have held for what time to be considered a strong candidate for promotion. There was a similar document I heard about for going from supervisor to manager. Combined these schedules said that no one would ever work their way up from entry level to department head. Ever. Therefore the only way to get there is outside of the official system via office politics, and not being honest about that is pretty dysfunctional on its own. That said, a symptom of that is the number of supervisors and managers who have 30+ years in...
- vonmoltke 7y ago
  > I think it's slightly more complicated. Having an older manager/supervisor is not a bad thing. Working in a department where you need to have put in 12 years to become a supervisor is a problem. Exactly. I was too brief with that point, but the issue is first-line managers, in some cases, having more experience than I had years of life at that point. It's an environment that seems to condemn people to life as a minor cog in a huge machine, where your opinions aren't respected and you have no hope of making it into any sort of management responsibility.
vonmoltke 7y ago
Yeah, I realize now I should have committed more words to explaining that part. An older manager per se was not a problem. It was that fact that every line manager had 15+ years of experience, and thus this level of tenure appeared to be a requirement to actually advance. It crushed any feelings of ambition, because there was literally nowhere to go even if the other management problems didn't exist.

Balgair 7y ago

The Silver Tsunami is not kind to DoD employment and to hiring managers. The young-uns look around, see nothing but old white dudes, and then head to anything resembling a FAANG. Livermore has had a heck of a problem with it. Even the 35+ year olds are trying to make like a banana.