4 ms·

Are there other top level domains that are at risk of this? What are the most stable ones?

tialaramex 7y ago
The ccTLDs are ultimately controlled by the sovereign entity whose country code is represented. So you could make the usual rule-of-law arguments in favour of a variety of stable industrialised economies, the same way you would for where you'd house the legal entity for an international business. But I don't see any indication that .org is likely to go away, they just intend to hike prices to make a nice profit, and that's totally inside the rule-of-law so there's no particular reason to think that, say, Canada, wouldn't do just the same if it saw the opportunity.
- thechao 7y ago
  Maybe someone could explain this to me: aren't non-ccTLDs controlled by consensus? If some asshat decides to jack the prices of *.orgs, why can't the majors (Google, MSFT, ...) just point to another DNS?
  - throw0101a 7y ago
    > If some asshat decides to jack the prices of .orgs, why can't the majors (Google, MSFT, ...) just point to another DNS? When you go to "www.example.org", you are really going to "www.example.org.". The extra period at the end is subtle, but important. The path of a DNS query is "." -> "org" -> "example" -> "www". Before a DNS client can lookup "example.org", it has to know where the DNS servers for the "org" TLD are, and it gets those values from the root domain servers, ".". * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNS_root_zone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNS_root_zone So how does a DNS client know how to find root domain servers? It's bootstrapped manually. Every DNS server has a static file that contains the values: * https://www.internic.net/domain/named.root https://www.internic.net/domain/named.root Once it contacts the root servers, a DNS server can then fetch the pointers to all the TLD and ccTLD name servers: * https://www.internic.net/domain/root.zone https://www.internic.net/domain/root.zone * https://www.iana.org/domains/root/db https://www.iana.org/domains/root/db There is no practical way for anyone to change the "." -> "org" pointers. You can do it on your own server, but you can't force anyone else to.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - MaxBarraclough 7y ago
      > You can do it on your own server, but you can't force anyone else to. That's exactly what thechao meant by 'consensus'. If we all agree to configure our computers to fail to resolve all domains ending with `.org`, there's no longer really a .org TLD. Google could probably pull it off. Imagine if .org domains failed to resolve in Chrome, or resolved but triggered an ad banner saying This website is supporting an institution which is undermining the web, for profit. Not the kind of activism we'd realistically expect from Google, but they have enormous power over the web. Throw in cooperation from the other browser vendors, and you can kill .org pretty dead. Unsanctioned DNS shenanigans aren't just hypothetical. Alternative DNS universes have long been a thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_DNS_root https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_DNS_root
  - MaxBarraclough 7y ago
    Alternative DNS roots exist, but to my knowledge they don't have much traction. It's good that they don't. It breaks the web if we have different 'namespaces' like that. URLs are means to be universal, after all. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_DNS_root https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_DNS_root
- zajio1am 7y ago
  > The ccTLDs are ultimately controlled by the sovereign entity whose country code is represented. AFAIK, that is not generally true. ICANN delegates administration of ccTLD to some corporation (sometimes non-profit, sometimes for-profit), based on consultation with local internet community of that country. Such organization may have e.g. memorandum of understanding wit local government, but there is no requirement to be under its direct control. Disclaimer: working for ccTLD registry, but speaking here for myself.
- throw0101a 7y ago
  > ... so there's no particular reason to think that, say, Canada, wouldn't do just the same if it saw the opportunity. .ca is run by CIRA, and they're structured as a non-profit: * https://cira.ca/about-cira https://cira.ca/about-cira They do run commercial services in an effort to diversify streams of revenue. For example they have an Anycast infrastructure that one can replicate to if you want better diversity for DNS: * https://cira.ca/cybersecurity-services/d-zone-anycast-dns https://cira.ca/cybersecurity-services/d-zone-anycast-dns

The ccTLDs are ultimately controlled by the sovereign entity whose country code is represented. So you could make the usual rule-of-law arguments in favour of a variety of stable industrialised economies, the same way you would for where you'd house the legal entity for an international business. But I don't see any indication that .org is likely to go away, they just intend to hike prices to make a nice profit, and that's totally inside the rule-of-law so there's no particular reason to think that, say, Canada, wouldn't do just the same if it saw the opportunity.

thechao 7y ago
Maybe someone could explain this to me: aren't non-ccTLDs controlled by consensus? If some asshat decides to jack the prices of *.orgs, why can't the majors (Google, MSFT, ...) just point to another DNS?
- throw0101a 7y ago
  > If some asshat decides to jack the prices of .orgs, why can't the majors (Google, MSFT, ...) just point to another DNS? When you go to "www.example.org", you are really going to "www.example.org.". The extra period at the end is subtle, but important. The path of a DNS query is "." -> "org" -> "example" -> "www". Before a DNS client can lookup "example.org", it has to know where the DNS servers for the "org" TLD are, and it gets those values from the root domain servers, ".". * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNS_root_zone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNS_root_zone So how does a DNS client know how to find root domain servers? It's bootstrapped manually. Every DNS server has a static file that contains the values: * https://www.internic.net/domain/named.root https://www.internic.net/domain/named.root Once it contacts the root servers, a DNS server can then fetch the pointers to all the TLD and ccTLD name servers: * https://www.internic.net/domain/root.zone https://www.internic.net/domain/root.zone * https://www.iana.org/domains/root/db https://www.iana.org/domains/root/db There is no practical way for anyone to change the "." -> "org" pointers. You can do it on your own server, but you can't force anyone else to.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - MaxBarraclough 7y ago
    > You can do it on your own server, but you can't force anyone else to. That's exactly what thechao meant by 'consensus'. If we all agree to configure our computers to fail to resolve all domains ending with `.org`, there's no longer really a .org TLD. Google could probably pull it off. Imagine if .org domains failed to resolve in Chrome, or resolved but triggered an ad banner saying This website is supporting an institution which is undermining the web, for profit. Not the kind of activism we'd realistically expect from Google, but they have enormous power over the web. Throw in cooperation from the other browser vendors, and you can kill .org pretty dead. Unsanctioned DNS shenanigans aren't just hypothetical. Alternative DNS universes have long been a thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_DNS_root https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_DNS_root
- MaxBarraclough 7y ago
  Alternative DNS roots exist, but to my knowledge they don't have much traction. It's good that they don't. It breaks the web if we have different 'namespaces' like that. URLs are means to be universal, after all. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_DNS_root https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_DNS_root
zajio1am 7y ago
> The ccTLDs are ultimately controlled by the sovereign entity whose country code is represented. AFAIK, that is not generally true. ICANN delegates administration of ccTLD to some corporation (sometimes non-profit, sometimes for-profit), based on consultation with local internet community of that country. Such organization may have e.g. memorandum of understanding wit local government, but there is no requirement to be under its direct control. Disclaimer: working for ccTLD registry, but speaking here for myself.
throw0101a 7y ago
> ... so there's no particular reason to think that, say, Canada, wouldn't do just the same if it saw the opportunity. .ca is run by CIRA, and they're structured as a non-profit: * https://cira.ca/about-cira https://cira.ca/about-cira They do run commercial services in an effort to diversify streams of revenue. For example they have an Anycast infrastructure that one can replicate to if you want better diversity for DNS: * https://cira.ca/cybersecurity-services/d-zone-anycast-dns https://cira.ca/cybersecurity-services/d-zone-anycast-dns