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Yes. I always think data freedom is more important than software freedom. For example it matters less that MS Word is not free as in freedom when you can open t

Yes. I always think data freedom is more important than software freedom. For example it matters less that MS Word is not free as in freedom when you can open the file in something that is.

TeMPOraL 7y ago
And cloud SaaS are enemies of both! After all, in order to have data freedom, you need to have something to open in that other program, and cloud solutions do their best to not give you proper open/save file (and even if there's an export function, and even if everything is actually included in the export, it often isn't followed by import function that could read that export). For this reason, I avoid using cloud SaaS for anything where can avoid it.
- quickthrower2 7y ago
  Absolutely. There are some exceptions though. Github is the obvious one. Dropbox by nature has your data constantly exported. Google for its sins has Google takeout.
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    Yes. And the first two I use, treating them mostly as dumb pieces of infrastructure. Arguably, the functionality they provide have a crucial ops component that I'm all for paying for someone else to handle it for me. But neither Github nor Dropbox locks me into anything. Google - yes, web e-mail obviously is similar to the above; as for their office suite, I recently found a good excuse to justify shelling out for a proper Microsoft Office subscription (though I don't like that it's a subscription), and I stick to using the faster, locally-available, file-using, much more powerful (if still proprietary) software.
SanchoPanda 7y ago
Seperating the two so cleanly is inappropriate imho. Software is the access layer around data, hence "Show me your flowchart and conceal your tables, and I shall continue to be mystified. Show me your tables, and I won't usually need your flowchart; it'll be obvious." -- Fred Brooks, The Mythical Man Month (1975) I would even say that software freedom implies or even requires data freedom, while the reverse does not hold. As an example I don't think that Facebook or Google's data export tools make them exemplars of user choice or control.

Yes. I always think data freedom is more important than software freedom. For example it matters less that MS Word is not free as in freedom when you can open the file in something that is.

TeMPOraL 7y ago

And cloud SaaS are enemies of both! After all, in order to have data freedom, you need to have something to open in that other program, and cloud solutions do their best to not give you proper open/save file (and even if there's an export function, and even if everything is actually included in the export, it often isn't followed by import function that could read that export). For this reason, I avoid using cloud SaaS for anything where can avoid it.

quickthrower2 7y ago
Absolutely. There are some exceptions though. Github is the obvious one. Dropbox by nature has your data constantly exported. Google for its sins has Google takeout.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  Yes. And the first two I use, treating them mostly as dumb pieces of infrastructure. Arguably, the functionality they provide have a crucial ops component that I'm all for paying for someone else to handle it for me. But neither Github nor Dropbox locks me into anything. Google - yes, web e-mail obviously is similar to the above; as for their office suite, I recently found a good excuse to justify shelling out for a proper Microsoft Office subscription (though I don't like that it's a subscription), and I stick to using the faster, locally-available, file-using, much more powerful (if still proprietary) software.

SanchoPanda 7y ago

Seperating the two so cleanly is inappropriate imho. Software is the access layer around data, hence "Show me your flowchart and conceal your tables, and I shall continue to be mystified. Show me your tables, and I won't usually need your flowchart; it'll be obvious." -- Fred Brooks, The Mythical Man Month (1975) I would even say that software freedom implies or even requires data freedom, while the reverse does not hold. As an example I don't think that Facebook or Google's data export tools make them exemplars of user choice or control.