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Oh my... These are the comments that have bounced most up/down in voting I've seen. (Possible worse are when complaining about meaningless language wars on HN.

by berntb 16y ago

Oh my... These are the comments that have bounced most up/down in voting I've seen. (Possible worse are when complaining about meaningless language wars on HN.) I guess some can be ascribed to non-native English ability so I'm not understandable, but still: I argue against someone that made claims he obviously didn't have support for (a specific point about Al J's position about that sermon in the beginning -- and in the last comment he make a different statement.) How the Hell can that be voted up like that? I'll ascribe this to that intelligence and rationality isn't really that connected -- ideology gives brain damage. I hope it isn't part of a degeneration of HN.

henrikschroder 16y ago
Sorry for the meta-discussion, I only want to help berntb understand. > I argue against someone that made claims No you don't, because ErrantX only stated his opinion. In this thread, ErrantX has shown that he has watched, and is watching, several different news channels. From that experience he has formed the opinion that English Al-Jazeera is one of the best news channels around. You on the other hand seem to have no actual experience with English Al-Jazeera, and you are dismissing them outright. That is the opposite of intellectual curiosity, and that is why you are being downvoted. > I'll ascribe this to that intelligence and rationality isn't really that connected -- ideology gives brain damage. I hope it isn't part of a degeneration of HN. Now you're saying that everyone that disagrees with you is stupid, and since a majority of HN readers disagree with you, that they also are stupid. Really?
- berntb 16y ago
  >>ErrantX only stated his opinion. Go back up, here is his first comment to the racist sermon asking for genocide: >>See, you have one incident - it's a bad one, sure, but definitely not representative of the channel. And, as it is, I accept their explanation for it That was a claim of facts. But he obviously has never seen any explanation for it. And had no idea if it was one or more incidents (it took me seconds to find another -- I have no idea how common it really is for Al J in Arabic). >>on the other hand seem to have no actual experience with English Al-Jazeera I know enough that no one really knows their agenda. (Well, except that they don't criticize the country they are sited in.) Edit: I might also add that ErrantX acknowledged that point. >>Now you're saying that everyone that disagrees with you is stupid How do you get that from "intelligence and rationality isn't really that connected"? (Edit: If you really don't get it, I'm writing the opposite.) I have been voted -30 or -40 here. That doesn't happen on HN if you are just wrong, which happens to everyone.
  - ErrantX 16y ago
    > That was a claim of facts. In case it is not clear, that was my opinion. I appreciate that using "definitely" might have confused the issue - but I was only trying to imply the strength of my opinion (rather than as fact). And also; as I keep saying - I have no opinion on the Arabic version, it is my understanding the two are very separate channels. All my comments refer to English AJ, period. I think you really have no experience of AJ - either English or AJ, and possibly (though I hate to suggest this, and apologise if it is not the case) little knowledge of the region. And you've come to this conversation assuming a) I am the same and b) I am misguided. It would have been nice to have a proper discussion (indeed you have raised points I will be looking into for myself) Bottom line is; the middle east is a passion of mine (hence, rusty Arabic :)). And AJ, I find them a great general news source; their agenda is the same as any news agency (or, rather, they have slight agenda's and bias like all news agencies). But on comparison it is my opinion that AJ are better than most. I think that clears up the points I wanted to get straight.. > Either you're drunk or trolling. This was just uncalled for and, in light of it, I'm not interested in continuing our discussion, sorry.
    - berntb 16y ago
      >>I think you really have no experience of AJ I have followed it a bit, mostly on the net since I try to avoid tv. The net variant might be different from the tv. I stopped when I realized why a news story was weirdly handled. It was done so it could be taken as not contradicting that some US military started shooting into a crowd without provocation. Which I really doubt would happen any western army. (Didn't save a reference, years ago.) >>the middle east is a passion of mine Frankly, I follow the ME news because the Middle East is a passion of my local (Swedish) media. :-) I have lots of fun comparing e.g. Reuters translations and checking in NY Times what is censored locally. I grew up trusting my local media -- it really shocked me, when I started to fact check them a decade ago. That is probably why I react to media which covers areas, but you have no idea of the spin and the political correctness. And my real interest in the Mid East isn't about the politics. It is the food and the music -- klezmer, Arabic music and their mixes (typically Balkan, which also has Turkish influences). Edit: Made clearer.
    - 16y ago

by berntb 16y ago

henrikschroder 16y ago

Sorry for the meta-discussion, I only want to help berntb understand. > I argue against someone that made claims No you don't, because ErrantX only stated his opinion. In this thread, ErrantX has shown that he has watched, and is watching, several different news channels. From that experience he has formed the opinion that English Al-Jazeera is one of the best news channels around. You on the other hand seem to have no actual experience with English Al-Jazeera, and you are dismissing them outright. That is the opposite of intellectual curiosity, and that is why you are being downvoted. > I'll ascribe this to that intelligence and rationality isn't really that connected -- ideology gives brain damage. I hope it isn't part of a degeneration of HN. Now you're saying that everyone that disagrees with you is stupid, and since a majority of HN readers disagree with you, that they also are stupid. Really?

berntb 16y ago
>>ErrantX only stated his opinion. Go back up, here is his first comment to the racist sermon asking for genocide: >>See, you have one incident - it's a bad one, sure, but definitely not representative of the channel. And, as it is, I accept their explanation for it That was a claim of facts. But he obviously has never seen any explanation for it. And had no idea if it was one or more incidents (it took me seconds to find another -- I have no idea how common it really is for Al J in Arabic). >>on the other hand seem to have no actual experience with English Al-Jazeera I know enough that no one really knows their agenda. (Well, except that they don't criticize the country they are sited in.) Edit: I might also add that ErrantX acknowledged that point. >>Now you're saying that everyone that disagrees with you is stupid How do you get that from "intelligence and rationality isn't really that connected"? (Edit: If you really don't get it, I'm writing the opposite.) I have been voted -30 or -40 here. That doesn't happen on HN if you are just wrong, which happens to everyone.
- ErrantX 16y ago
  > That was a claim of facts. In case it is not clear, that was my opinion. I appreciate that using "definitely" might have confused the issue - but I was only trying to imply the strength of my opinion (rather than as fact). And also; as I keep saying - I have no opinion on the Arabic version, it is my understanding the two are very separate channels. All my comments refer to English AJ, period. I think you really have no experience of AJ - either English or AJ, and possibly (though I hate to suggest this, and apologise if it is not the case) little knowledge of the region. And you've come to this conversation assuming a) I am the same and b) I am misguided. It would have been nice to have a proper discussion (indeed you have raised points I will be looking into for myself) Bottom line is; the middle east is a passion of mine (hence, rusty Arabic :)). And AJ, I find them a great general news source; their agenda is the same as any news agency (or, rather, they have slight agenda's and bias like all news agencies). But on comparison it is my opinion that AJ are better than most. I think that clears up the points I wanted to get straight.. > Either you're drunk or trolling. This was just uncalled for and, in light of it, I'm not interested in continuing our discussion, sorry.
  - berntb 16y ago
    >>I think you really have no experience of AJ I have followed it a bit, mostly on the net since I try to avoid tv. The net variant might be different from the tv. I stopped when I realized why a news story was weirdly handled. It was done so it could be taken as not contradicting that some US military started shooting into a crowd without provocation. Which I really doubt would happen any western army. (Didn't save a reference, years ago.) >>the middle east is a passion of mine Frankly, I follow the ME news because the Middle East is a passion of my local (Swedish) media. :-) I have lots of fun comparing e.g. Reuters translations and checking in NY Times what is censored locally. I grew up trusting my local media -- it really shocked me, when I started to fact check them a decade ago. That is probably why I react to media which covers areas, but you have no idea of the spin and the political correctness. And my real interest in the Mid East isn't about the politics. It is the food and the music -- klezmer, Arabic music and their mixes (typically Balkan, which also has Turkish influences). Edit: Made clearer.
  - 16y ago