4 ms·

What's more important? Global internet access for the rest of the world population or a few dozen telescopes? Imo internet access is going to have immediate pos

What's more important? Global internet access for the rest of the world population or a few dozen telescopes? Imo internet access is going to have immediate positive impact for billions of global disconnected poor.

cstross 7y ago
I'm sure I could make better use of your home by demolishing it and erecting a homeless hostel. Isn't that more important than your prior claim to live there? (This is a m-e-t-a-p-h-o-r, not a literal proposal, but what Starlink is doing to astronomy on a global scale is pretty much equivalent. The onus should be on Starlink to (a) not do that, or (b) pay for complete relocation or replacement of the telescopes they've just wrecked. Yes, that's a lot of money. Boo hoo ...)
- shadowgovt 7y ago
  > The onus should be on Starlink to (a) not do that Why? Astronomers have no more claim to ownership of the sky than Starlink does.
  - pintxo 7y ago
    Astronomers are not changing anything IN the sky, Starlink does?
    - shadowgovt 7y ago
      The sky changes all the time. Astronomers are observers, and it seems the onus should be on the observer to change the way they interpret the observation if the observable changes. We didn't kill radio stations (or microwave ovens) to make sure that radio telescopes can do their jobs [https://xkcd.com/2226/ https://xkcd.com/2226/].
      - pintxo 7y ago
        Isn't there a "security-zone" around the large radio-telescopes where usage of most electronic devices is forbidden?
- 019djen2lsls 7y ago
  It's hardly equivalent, you're just backpeddling because your metaphor was bad. The homeless are bad for the regions they occupy by virtually every metric local residents might care about. Presumably the same is not true of ground based telescopes.
  - Rebelgecko 7y ago
    >Presumably the same is not true of ground based telescopes. There can be plenty of controversy for telescopes. Check out the protests against the 30m Telescope in Hawaii.
    - 019djen2lsls 7y ago
      I won't lie, this has been a fascinating rabbit hole so far!
nikofeyn 7y ago
> Imo internet access is going to have immediate positive impact for billions of global disconnected poor. do you really think that? is that why companies like facebook are so interested in third-world markets? or is it because they want to elevate their ability to siphon user data and hack human emotions to become addicted for more and more money, and also that facebook wants there to be little distinction between them and and the internet in these markets? i don't think the internet has had as big of a positive impact on society as people think it has. in no other time in history has there existed such a powerful medium for control and manipulation. and this is ignoring the fact that most of elon's projects are born out of narcissism and hubris.
carapace 7y ago
Why not have both?

cstross 7y ago

I'm sure I could make better use of your home by demolishing it and erecting a homeless hostel. Isn't that more important than your prior claim to live there? (This is a m-e-t-a-p-h-o-r, not a literal proposal, but what Starlink is doing to astronomy on a global scale is pretty much equivalent. The onus should be on Starlink to (a) not do that, or (b) pay for complete relocation or replacement of the telescopes they've just wrecked. Yes, that's a lot of money. Boo hoo ...)

shadowgovt 7y ago
> The onus should be on Starlink to (a) not do that Why? Astronomers have no more claim to ownership of the sky than Starlink does.
- pintxo 7y ago
  Astronomers are not changing anything IN the sky, Starlink does?
  - shadowgovt 7y ago
    The sky changes all the time. Astronomers are observers, and it seems the onus should be on the observer to change the way they interpret the observation if the observable changes. We didn't kill radio stations (or microwave ovens) to make sure that radio telescopes can do their jobs [https://xkcd.com/2226/ https://xkcd.com/2226/].
    - pintxo 7y ago
      Isn't there a "security-zone" around the large radio-telescopes where usage of most electronic devices is forbidden?
019djen2lsls 7y ago
It's hardly equivalent, you're just backpeddling because your metaphor was bad. The homeless are bad for the regions they occupy by virtually every metric local residents might care about. Presumably the same is not true of ground based telescopes.
- Rebelgecko 7y ago
  >Presumably the same is not true of ground based telescopes. There can be plenty of controversy for telescopes. Check out the protests against the 30m Telescope in Hawaii.
  - 019djen2lsls 7y ago
    I won't lie, this has been a fascinating rabbit hole so far!

nikofeyn 7y ago

> Imo internet access is going to have immediate positive impact for billions of global disconnected poor. do you really think that? is that why companies like facebook are so interested in third-world markets? or is it because they want to elevate their ability to siphon user data and hack human emotions to become addicted for more and more money, and also that facebook wants there to be little distinction between them and and the internet in these markets? i don't think the internet has had as big of a positive impact on society as people think it has. in no other time in history has there existed such a powerful medium for control and manipulation. and this is ignoring the fact that most of elon's projects are born out of narcissism and hubris.

carapace 7y ago

Why not have both?