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Anyone who's ever lived in china for several years will tell you chinese nationalism is extremely intense. Even in america, if you have a conversation with a c

Anyone who's ever lived in china for several years will tell you chinese nationalism is extremely intense. Even in america, if you have a conversation with a chinese person about the PRC or even just economic conditions in china, that person will in any case, always defend the PRC under any condition, no matter what the PRC has done, even if they themselves are against the PRC and agree with what your saying.

nailer 7y ago
Anecdote (not data, not agreeing or disagreeing, just one point): I have good mainland Chinese friends who are members of the CCP. They don't believe in communism, they're members of the CCP because 'it looks good to have the CCP on your CV'. They know the government killed people in Tiananmen square. They do link the CCP to the fact they're richer than their parents (I see this as the US deciding to 'open China' back in the 70s). And they value stability more than the individual.
larnmar 7y ago
Is that nationalism or just a background knowledge that your whole family could wind up in a prison camp if you say the wrong thing?
scarmig 7y ago
Having dated several people from the mainland, this is not my experience. Which isn't to say we always agree on PRC politics, but the idea that they uncritically buy the Party line is simply wrong. If mainland Chinese people are mindless drones incapable of independent thought, why does the PRC need to invest billions of dollars every year in monitoring and policing what people say and think?
mywittyname 7y ago
I do this when people from other nations unfairly criticize the USA, even when I agree with what they are saying. So as a word of advice, when this happens... > defend the PRC under any condition[...] even if they agree with what your saying. Then your argument likely heavy-handed or misses the nuance of the situation. Using the USA as an example, the impression a foreigner gets from looking at gun statistics is completely different from reality. So if a person from Europe starts to lecture you on guns in the USA, you're going to get a little defensive at their incorrect assumptions, even if you agree with their stance in general.
- pertymcpert 7y ago
  Why? Why would you get defensive? It’s nothing personal against you. Argue the facts, don’t get emotional.
  - mywittyname 7y ago
    As I pointed out, the know a bunch of facts, but they don't understand the reality between those facts. Which is to say they really don't know what they are talking about. It's like hearing a person complain about a movie they've never seen, but they read the Wikipedia entry on it. They may understand the major plot lines, but you're not going to have an engaging discussion with them about the acting or cinematics.
- PavlovsCat 7y ago
  > So if a person from Europe starts to lecture you on guns in the USA, you're going to get a little defensive at their incorrect assumptions, even if you agree with their stance in general. That is very much unlike, say, "defending all American gun laws to a T, without mentioning at all what you actually think, because they made you do it for being unfair or mistaken about something". And where that is the case, how you say things doesn't really matter, you won't get anyhwere either way. So you might as well be blunt, and if they want to correct something, let them. If they want to make excuses about being offended and not correct anything, it stands as is. I know, because I get that all the time, when Americans say "Germany doesn't have freedom of speech" or such, because glorifying Nazism is illegal. I don't start pretending Germany is perfect in response to that, I quote them some basics about freedom of speech, stuff about American law and whatnot, and try to explain how there is no "totally unrestricted" free speech anywhere there is a listener. Then they always (no exceptions so far, probably because intelligent Americans don't even say "there is no freedom of speech in Germany" to begin with) drift off into nonsense or fall silent, because their brain seems to be unable to process what I'm telling them.

nailer 7y ago

Anecdote (not data, not agreeing or disagreeing, just one point): I have good mainland Chinese friends who are members of the CCP. They don't believe in communism, they're members of the CCP because 'it looks good to have the CCP on your CV'. They know the government killed people in Tiananmen square. They do link the CCP to the fact they're richer than their parents (I see this as the US deciding to 'open China' back in the 70s). And they value stability more than the individual.

larnmar 7y ago

Is that nationalism or just a background knowledge that your whole family could wind up in a prison camp if you say the wrong thing?

scarmig 7y ago

Having dated several people from the mainland, this is not my experience. Which isn't to say we always agree on PRC politics, but the idea that they uncritically buy the Party line is simply wrong. If mainland Chinese people are mindless drones incapable of independent thought, why does the PRC need to invest billions of dollars every year in monitoring and policing what people say and think?

mywittyname 7y ago

I do this when people from other nations unfairly criticize the USA, even when I agree with what they are saying. So as a word of advice, when this happens... > defend the PRC under any condition[...] even if they agree with what your saying. Then your argument likely heavy-handed or misses the nuance of the situation. Using the USA as an example, the impression a foreigner gets from looking at gun statistics is completely different from reality. So if a person from Europe starts to lecture you on guns in the USA, you're going to get a little defensive at their incorrect assumptions, even if you agree with their stance in general.

pertymcpert 7y ago
Why? Why would you get defensive? It’s nothing personal against you. Argue the facts, don’t get emotional.
- mywittyname 7y ago
  As I pointed out, the know a bunch of facts, but they don't understand the reality between those facts. Which is to say they really don't know what they are talking about. It's like hearing a person complain about a movie they've never seen, but they read the Wikipedia entry on it. They may understand the major plot lines, but you're not going to have an engaging discussion with them about the acting or cinematics.
PavlovsCat 7y ago
> So if a person from Europe starts to lecture you on guns in the USA, you're going to get a little defensive at their incorrect assumptions, even if you agree with their stance in general. That is very much unlike, say, "defending all American gun laws to a T, without mentioning at all what you actually think, because they made you do it for being unfair or mistaken about something". And where that is the case, how you say things doesn't really matter, you won't get anyhwere either way. So you might as well be blunt, and if they want to correct something, let them. If they want to make excuses about being offended and not correct anything, it stands as is. I know, because I get that all the time, when Americans say "Germany doesn't have freedom of speech" or such, because glorifying Nazism is illegal. I don't start pretending Germany is perfect in response to that, I quote them some basics about freedom of speech, stuff about American law and whatnot, and try to explain how there is no "totally unrestricted" free speech anywhere there is a listener. Then they always (no exceptions so far, probably because intelligent Americans don't even say "there is no freedom of speech in Germany" to begin with) drift off into nonsense or fall silent, because their brain seems to be unable to process what I'm telling them.