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> How far do you take this delusion is what I'm curious about? The delusion is assuming people have control over their actions. Yes it's wrong that we punish p

by sysbin 7y ago

> How far do you take this delusion is what I'm curious about? The delusion is assuming people have control over their actions. Yes it's wrong that we punish people that didn't have control over the life they were born into and what happens without any control because the universe made it so. Yes of course it applies to all actions humans are forced to do in life.

mnm1 7y ago
So if someone murdered your whole family, you'd have no issues with it because it was predetermined. Got it.
- sysbin 7y ago
  The blame would be at whatever created the universe. Since everything is chained backwards to that moment. You seem to not understand how things happen in reality if you're asking this question.
- kempbellt 7y ago
  Determinism doesn't preclude the notion that I would be determinedly upset if that happened. In fact, the opposite is true. I would be very upset, because I like my family (most of the time). This is where the phrases "don't poke the bear" and "don't grab a snake by its tail" come from. People have determined that it is likely to lead to a not-so-fun outcome. Determinism, essentially, is empathy with nature. It is understanding that living creatures have needs, and when those needs are not met, bad things happen. To use a light-hearted example. A parent might notice a deterministic pattern, whereby their child begins to cry when it is hungry. Feeding the child to prevent the crying is empathizing with that child. "Empathizing with the shooter" is a matter of learning what lead the shooter to become a shooter so that you can try and prevent it from happening again. It doesn't mean that the shooting doesn't bother you, or that if someone is about to attack your family that you write it off as "predetermined". Edit: A better example might be empathizing with an asteroid that is about to destroy the planet. Is being angry that it is on its current path helpful? Not really. Would you be upset if it crashed into Earth? Probably (albeit briefly). Determinism = Understanding that the asteroid obeys the laws of physics, and looking out for situations that cause an asteroid to begin flying at the Earth so that it's damage can be mitigated, or prevented.

by sysbin 7y ago

mnm1 7y ago

So if someone murdered your whole family, you'd have no issues with it because it was predetermined. Got it.

sysbin 7y ago
The blame would be at whatever created the universe. Since everything is chained backwards to that moment. You seem to not understand how things happen in reality if you're asking this question.
kempbellt 7y ago
Determinism doesn't preclude the notion that I would be determinedly upset if that happened. In fact, the opposite is true. I would be very upset, because I like my family (most of the time). This is where the phrases "don't poke the bear" and "don't grab a snake by its tail" come from. People have determined that it is likely to lead to a not-so-fun outcome. Determinism, essentially, is empathy with nature. It is understanding that living creatures have needs, and when those needs are not met, bad things happen. To use a light-hearted example. A parent might notice a deterministic pattern, whereby their child begins to cry when it is hungry. Feeding the child to prevent the crying is empathizing with that child. "Empathizing with the shooter" is a matter of learning what lead the shooter to become a shooter so that you can try and prevent it from happening again. It doesn't mean that the shooting doesn't bother you, or that if someone is about to attack your family that you write it off as "predetermined". Edit: A better example might be empathizing with an asteroid that is about to destroy the planet. Is being angry that it is on its current path helpful? Not really. Would you be upset if it crashed into Earth? Probably (albeit briefly). Determinism = Understanding that the asteroid obeys the laws of physics, and looking out for situations that cause an asteroid to begin flying at the Earth so that it's damage can be mitigated, or prevented.