6 ms·

That's because it's illegal.

lotsofpulp 7y ago
Is it illegal to write “we will bill your insurance for procedure codes x y z for your visit”? They don’t need to tell you the cost, but they know what they’re going to charge you beforehand. They should be able to tell you the codes so you can give it t your insurance company to find out how much it will cost. The reason healthcare providers don’t give out codes for known predictable procedures is it would enable customers to shop around. Instead, they want you to sign a paper saying you’re liable for whatever they claim you’re liable for.
- noelsusman 7y ago
  Yes, it is illegal to send that information to your email account or your mailbox. These days most providers have services that enable them to communicate with patients electronically, but it's a totally separate system that you have to login to. Your private health information will never show up in your email inbox.
  - lotsofpulp 7y ago
    They won't reply via online accounts either. I will send them messages via the portal, and I always get generic responses. And doctors will never respond, it's always second hand from nurses, but they will just ask to call the office.
  - munk-a 7y ago
    This is generally incorrect, sending PHI over email is not inherently a HIPAA violation, it all depends on factors that really need to be reviewed by a compliance officer.
- njharman 7y ago
  HIPPA and privacy laws. Communications have to be secure.
  - mavhc 7y ago
    So only send it to email services that support TLS, ie 99% of them
    - noelsusman 7y ago
      Not secure in the sense that it's encrypted, though that's part of it. Secure in the sense that you know you're communicating with the patient and only the patient, not their spouse, or their grandson, or Google's servers.
      - mavhc 7y ago
        Can't people just put in their email address, verify it by sending an email, and agree that that they're fine with that?
        noelsusman 7y ago
        Yes, that is possible, and some do that. In practice, HIPAA is pretty complicated and email is more of a dark gray area than a hard no. For that reason most providers avoid it and prefer to use dedicated secure messaging systems that have things like consent and auditing built in.
      - smileysteve 7y ago
        > or Google's servers But it's fine if it's (approved and) over a telecom provider as long as the medium is unencrypted facsimile.
      - SilasX 7y ago
        If that's actually a requirement, then why are most providers happy to accept that it's me over the phone/at the pharmacy if I simply say I'm Silas and maybe give the right date of birth?
        travisoneill1 7y ago
        Because it's not actually about meeting the stated goal. It's about checking all the boxes on some asinine bureaucratic form that assumes if all the boxes are checked, then the goal is met. This is how stupid people do things when you give them authority.
- munk-a 7y ago
  The procedure codes involved in your visit explicitly call out what your treatment was, since information about your state of health and ongoing medical information is considered private information we have HIPAA to protect that privacy. Information about what procedures you've had done are relatively important to keep private so that knowledge of such procedures isn't used to influence your employment - while getting blood drawn like resulted in a pretty innocuous procedure code, there are other procedure codes that are far more sensitive to disclose - including pregnancy detection (to avoid being let go for a company to dodge maternity requirements) and more social privacy concerns like being treated for an STD.
  - lotsofpulp 7y ago
    Then they can print out a quote for me before the appointment listing the codes that will be billed so I can obtain the cost from the insurance company. My point is that they don't want to provide them before the appointment to prevent shopping around.
  - pnw_hazor 7y ago
    Unless the patient is prescribed a controlled substance. Then docs force patients to sign a waiver that enables the police and just any other state agency to take a peek for any reason. Of course, the patient always can refuse to sign the waiver and seek out non-traditional/conventional sources of treatment. As a lawyer it is shocking to see how far the medical profession has fallen w.r.t. patient privacy.
    - fingerlocks 7y ago
      Can you elaborate a little? Where/when is this waiver signed? If I get a small pain killer for post surgery pain, like Vicodin, am I asked to sign this waiver by my doc? Or is it at the pharmacy counter?
      - pnw_hazor 7y ago
        Usually, it is the healthcare provider, they require drug testing (urinalysis) and require patients to waive patient privacy. The details may vary by state or among providers. And, I believe some healthcare providers require patient privacy waivers that are broader than specifically required by the locality. This might be an effort to avoid having to update the patient waivers as local law change. For example, a healthcare provider in Seattle, WA (UW Physicians') uses a controlled substance privacy waiver that can be read to allow any state or local agency access to a patient's medical record for any reason. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/states-require-doctors-to-use-prescription-drug-monitoring-systems-for-patients/2018/01/12/c76807b8-f009-11e7-97bf-bba379b809ab_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/state...

Is it illegal to write “we will bill your insurance for procedure codes x y z for your visit”? They don’t need to tell you the cost, but they know what they’re going to charge you beforehand. They should be able to tell you the codes so you can give it t your insurance company to find out how much it will cost. The reason healthcare providers don’t give out codes for known predictable procedures is it would enable customers to shop around. Instead, they want you to sign a paper saying you’re liable for whatever they claim you’re liable for.

noelsusman 7y ago
Yes, it is illegal to send that information to your email account or your mailbox. These days most providers have services that enable them to communicate with patients electronically, but it's a totally separate system that you have to login to. Your private health information will never show up in your email inbox.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  They won't reply via online accounts either. I will send them messages via the portal, and I always get generic responses. And doctors will never respond, it's always second hand from nurses, but they will just ask to call the office.
- munk-a 7y ago
  This is generally incorrect, sending PHI over email is not inherently a HIPAA violation, it all depends on factors that really need to be reviewed by a compliance officer.
njharman 7y ago
HIPPA and privacy laws. Communications have to be secure.
- mavhc 7y ago
  So only send it to email services that support TLS, ie 99% of them
  - noelsusman 7y ago
    Not secure in the sense that it's encrypted, though that's part of it. Secure in the sense that you know you're communicating with the patient and only the patient, not their spouse, or their grandson, or Google's servers.
    - mavhc 7y ago
      Can't people just put in their email address, verify it by sending an email, and agree that that they're fine with that?
      - noelsusman 7y ago
        Yes, that is possible, and some do that. In practice, HIPAA is pretty complicated and email is more of a dark gray area than a hard no. For that reason most providers avoid it and prefer to use dedicated secure messaging systems that have things like consent and auditing built in.
    - smileysteve 7y ago
      > or Google's servers But it's fine if it's (approved and) over a telecom provider as long as the medium is unencrypted facsimile.
    - SilasX 7y ago
      If that's actually a requirement, then why are most providers happy to accept that it's me over the phone/at the pharmacy if I simply say I'm Silas and maybe give the right date of birth?
      - travisoneill1 7y ago
        Because it's not actually about meeting the stated goal. It's about checking all the boxes on some asinine bureaucratic form that assumes if all the boxes are checked, then the goal is met. This is how stupid people do things when you give them authority.
munk-a 7y ago
The procedure codes involved in your visit explicitly call out what your treatment was, since information about your state of health and ongoing medical information is considered private information we have HIPAA to protect that privacy. Information about what procedures you've had done are relatively important to keep private so that knowledge of such procedures isn't used to influence your employment - while getting blood drawn like resulted in a pretty innocuous procedure code, there are other procedure codes that are far more sensitive to disclose - including pregnancy detection (to avoid being let go for a company to dodge maternity requirements) and more social privacy concerns like being treated for an STD.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  Then they can print out a quote for me before the appointment listing the codes that will be billed so I can obtain the cost from the insurance company. My point is that they don't want to provide them before the appointment to prevent shopping around.
- pnw_hazor 7y ago
  Unless the patient is prescribed a controlled substance. Then docs force patients to sign a waiver that enables the police and just any other state agency to take a peek for any reason. Of course, the patient always can refuse to sign the waiver and seek out non-traditional/conventional sources of treatment. As a lawyer it is shocking to see how far the medical profession has fallen w.r.t. patient privacy.
  - fingerlocks 7y ago
    Can you elaborate a little? Where/when is this waiver signed? If I get a small pain killer for post surgery pain, like Vicodin, am I asked to sign this waiver by my doc? Or is it at the pharmacy counter?
    - pnw_hazor 7y ago
      Usually, it is the healthcare provider, they require drug testing (urinalysis) and require patients to waive patient privacy. The details may vary by state or among providers. And, I believe some healthcare providers require patient privacy waivers that are broader than specifically required by the locality. This might be an effort to avoid having to update the patient waivers as local law change. For example, a healthcare provider in Seattle, WA (UW Physicians') uses a controlled substance privacy waiver that can be read to allow any state or local agency access to a patient's medical record for any reason. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/states-require-doctors-to-use-prescription-drug-monitoring-systems-for-patients/2018/01/12/c76807b8-f009-11e7-97bf-bba379b809ab_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/state...