6 ms·

Hah, fun! Visited this a few years back. It's in great condition, particularly memorable things were the bullet holes (all highlighted in red paint) and the int

by ruddct 7y ago

Hah, fun! Visited this a few years back. It's in great condition, particularly memorable things were the bullet holes (all highlighted in red paint) and the intro video[0], which is worth watching if only to experience the extremely distinct North Korean English accent. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95qtd2Mwnpg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95qtd2Mwnpg

daveslash 7y ago
How were you able to visit it, honest question? As an American myself, I wouldn't dare set foot in that country. Was a visit there an easy experience? Would you go back?
- albroland 7y ago
  Before the state department banned travel there, it was quite easy as a US passport holder. You apply through a tour company based in China who will handle the arrangements. You show up in Beijing, collect your visa booklet (they don't stamp your passport), and fly into Pyongyang.
- jackpirate 7y ago
  There's a school called the Pyongyang University of Science and Technology (https://pust.co https://pust.co) that invites foreigners to come teach North Korean citizens. I spent 2 semesters teaching computer science at PUST and it was a wonderful experience. You really get to know the locals (both students and staff) much better than on a short tourist trip. Some highlights include teaching Dijkstra's algorithm by showing them google maps images of Pyongyang (which they hadn't seen from space before), talking about Snowden and how he used encryption to hide from the NSA, and having North Korean citizens contribute to open source machine learning projects (vowpal wabbit and mlpack). All the students I met with were also surprisingly well informed about both events in the US and American history. You also get to do as much touristy stuff as you'd like. Two highlights for me were, visiting the Pueblo and the subway system. As a former naval nuclear officer, it was quite surreal to visit these places. The subway system is one of the few places in the world that US nuclear weapons cannot effectively target because it is buried so far underground (>100m). You have to spend about 5 minutes riding the longest escalator I've ever seen to get from the surface to the trains. It's a daily reminder to North Korean citizens that they've been targeted by US nuclear weapons for decades. Educational exchanges have a long history of improving relations between countries, and so I'm a huge advocate for the PUST exchanges. Unfortunately, I had to stop going because President Trump no longer allows Americans to visit North Korea. If any non-Americans are interested in going, however, shoot me an email (mike@izbicki.me) and I'm happy to chat more with you about the experience.
  - devicetray0 7y ago
    > All the students I met with were surprisingly well informed about both events in the US and American history. This is surprising to me. I imagine they read some news/propaganda about the events, rather than reading the NYTimes, WAPO, or BBC news directly. Can you comment on that? > As a former naval nuclear officer Did you have to get special approval?
    - jackpirate 7y ago
      > This is surprising to me. I imagine they read some news/propaganda about the events, rather than reading the NYTimes, WAPO, or BBC news directly. Can you comment on that? Their history lessons certainly have a different emphasis than American history lessons. They emphasize things like slavery in the US and the CIA's interventions in Latin America in service of US businesses, but from all my conversations with students none of them had learned anything that was actually incorrect. They get their news mainly from government run newspapers, but also word of mouth spreads news pretty quickly. > Did you have to get special approval? It had been long enough since my time in service that non of my clearances were still valid, and so there was no special risk of me disclosing anything. I just contacted the American embassy in China and informed them of my plans.
  - alongwittheflow 7y ago
    Could you give us more information about the internet access? Do some people in NK have internet access? Did you? If so, what kind of restrictions were there? Any firewall like great firewall of China?
    - jackpirate 7y ago
      I would frequently have to download linux distributions for my work, and they would download in seconds. I was maxing out my gigabit lan connection. At the time, they throttled individual connections, but not total bandwidth useage, so you had to use something like a bittorent client that creates many simultaneous connections to get the high speeds. Latency was a big problem though. Skype calls were often very poor. And power is pretty spotty in Pyongyang, so all of this is assuming that there's electricity. Graduate students at PUST (and other local universities) have unfiltered internet. Undergrads have a more limited access where they would have to request that I download a webpage for them, and then I'd go download it and stick it on a usb drive. One of the main limitations is that students are not supposed to create accounts on websites because this would lead to tracking of them, which would allow NSA/CIA to target them.
- ruddct 7y ago
  I went when Americans were still allowed to go, with Koryo Tours, who I'd recommend strongly. As the only way to get in is with a tour agency, it's actually a very easy trip to arrange. All you have to do is get to Beijing, the agency takes care of the rest. That said, I wouldn't call it an easy destination while you're there, depending on your personality type. You have no freedom of movement, are pretty transparently being used for domestic propaganda purposes, and you're with your NK tour guides 100% of the time (and they're very vocal about their distaste for America/Americans, even if they're friendly to you directly). If you're the kind of person who can't follow rules, or if you get vocal/aggressive/unpredictable (particularly when drinking), it is not the destination for you. Most (but not all) of the foreigners who've been detained in NK did something dumb while there that resulted in detainment; if you can imagine yourself acting similarly dumb, don't go. That said, I had a great time, loved the group I ended up with, and saw a part of the world that few else have. I'd go back in a heartbeat as soon as the political climate between the US/NK changes for the better.
  - globuous 7y ago
    Great feedback ! From your first sentence, i assume you are american ? Would you recommend it to non americans that wish to enter us soil within the decade ?
    - ruddct 7y ago
      Correct, and yep would highly recommend going. Tough to imagine it causing an issue getting into the US, as the trip originates/terminates in China and doesn't get you a passport stamp. (Disclaimer: US immigration politics are crazy right now, so obviously take all that with a healthy grain of salt)
      - alexhutcheson 7y ago
        It's hard for me to understand why someone would want to go after reading about the case of Otto Warmbier[1]. There are plenty of interesting and exciting places to visit in the world that don't put you at the mercy of DPRK officials and their reaction to geopolitical events. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Warmbier https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Warmbier
- InertiaNetwork 7y ago
  You can't enter the country anymore with a US passport, but you certainly still can if you're a dual citizen. Many tour operators regularly take people into North Korea to see guided tours. Keep in mind though, these are highly structured tours that are designed to keep you in line and only see certain things. You will be extremely safe while in the country, it's basically like a giant airport. Play in the boundaries and you're fine. Tens of thousands of tourists go there annually. I am actually running a Hockey tournament in Pyongyang as a way to bridge the gap if anybody is interested. Unlike most tour operators, because we operate directly through the Ministry of Sports, we get a lot more liberties that you typically do not get through a regular tour agency that is only looking to provide to provide a cut and dry experience. https://inertianetwork.com/pyongyang-cup https://inertianetwork.com/pyongyang-cup
js2 7y ago
Bizarre accent... almost like American actors trying to sound like Russian submariners: https://youtu.be/PBHYbeg2nao https://youtu.be/PBHYbeg2nao

by ruddct 7y ago

daveslash 7y ago

How were you able to visit it, honest question? As an American myself, I wouldn't dare set foot in that country. Was a visit there an easy experience? Would you go back?

albroland 7y ago
Before the state department banned travel there, it was quite easy as a US passport holder. You apply through a tour company based in China who will handle the arrangements. You show up in Beijing, collect your visa booklet (they don't stamp your passport), and fly into Pyongyang.
jackpirate 7y ago
There's a school called the Pyongyang University of Science and Technology (https://pust.co https://pust.co) that invites foreigners to come teach North Korean citizens. I spent 2 semesters teaching computer science at PUST and it was a wonderful experience. You really get to know the locals (both students and staff) much better than on a short tourist trip. Some highlights include teaching Dijkstra's algorithm by showing them google maps images of Pyongyang (which they hadn't seen from space before), talking about Snowden and how he used encryption to hide from the NSA, and having North Korean citizens contribute to open source machine learning projects (vowpal wabbit and mlpack). All the students I met with were also surprisingly well informed about both events in the US and American history. You also get to do as much touristy stuff as you'd like. Two highlights for me were, visiting the Pueblo and the subway system. As a former naval nuclear officer, it was quite surreal to visit these places. The subway system is one of the few places in the world that US nuclear weapons cannot effectively target because it is buried so far underground (>100m). You have to spend about 5 minutes riding the longest escalator I've ever seen to get from the surface to the trains. It's a daily reminder to North Korean citizens that they've been targeted by US nuclear weapons for decades. Educational exchanges have a long history of improving relations between countries, and so I'm a huge advocate for the PUST exchanges. Unfortunately, I had to stop going because President Trump no longer allows Americans to visit North Korea. If any non-Americans are interested in going, however, shoot me an email (mike@izbicki.me) and I'm happy to chat more with you about the experience.
- devicetray0 7y ago
  > All the students I met with were surprisingly well informed about both events in the US and American history. This is surprising to me. I imagine they read some news/propaganda about the events, rather than reading the NYTimes, WAPO, or BBC news directly. Can you comment on that? > As a former naval nuclear officer Did you have to get special approval?
  - jackpirate 7y ago
    > This is surprising to me. I imagine they read some news/propaganda about the events, rather than reading the NYTimes, WAPO, or BBC news directly. Can you comment on that? Their history lessons certainly have a different emphasis than American history lessons. They emphasize things like slavery in the US and the CIA's interventions in Latin America in service of US businesses, but from all my conversations with students none of them had learned anything that was actually incorrect. They get their news mainly from government run newspapers, but also word of mouth spreads news pretty quickly. > Did you have to get special approval? It had been long enough since my time in service that non of my clearances were still valid, and so there was no special risk of me disclosing anything. I just contacted the American embassy in China and informed them of my plans.
- alongwittheflow 7y ago
  Could you give us more information about the internet access? Do some people in NK have internet access? Did you? If so, what kind of restrictions were there? Any firewall like great firewall of China?
  - jackpirate 7y ago
    I would frequently have to download linux distributions for my work, and they would download in seconds. I was maxing out my gigabit lan connection. At the time, they throttled individual connections, but not total bandwidth useage, so you had to use something like a bittorent client that creates many simultaneous connections to get the high speeds. Latency was a big problem though. Skype calls were often very poor. And power is pretty spotty in Pyongyang, so all of this is assuming that there's electricity. Graduate students at PUST (and other local universities) have unfiltered internet. Undergrads have a more limited access where they would have to request that I download a webpage for them, and then I'd go download it and stick it on a usb drive. One of the main limitations is that students are not supposed to create accounts on websites because this would lead to tracking of them, which would allow NSA/CIA to target them.
ruddct 7y ago
I went when Americans were still allowed to go, with Koryo Tours, who I'd recommend strongly. As the only way to get in is with a tour agency, it's actually a very easy trip to arrange. All you have to do is get to Beijing, the agency takes care of the rest. That said, I wouldn't call it an easy destination while you're there, depending on your personality type. You have no freedom of movement, are pretty transparently being used for domestic propaganda purposes, and you're with your NK tour guides 100% of the time (and they're very vocal about their distaste for America/Americans, even if they're friendly to you directly). If you're the kind of person who can't follow rules, or if you get vocal/aggressive/unpredictable (particularly when drinking), it is not the destination for you. Most (but not all) of the foreigners who've been detained in NK did something dumb while there that resulted in detainment; if you can imagine yourself acting similarly dumb, don't go. That said, I had a great time, loved the group I ended up with, and saw a part of the world that few else have. I'd go back in a heartbeat as soon as the political climate between the US/NK changes for the better.
- globuous 7y ago
  Great feedback ! From your first sentence, i assume you are american ? Would you recommend it to non americans that wish to enter us soil within the decade ?
  - ruddct 7y ago
    Correct, and yep would highly recommend going. Tough to imagine it causing an issue getting into the US, as the trip originates/terminates in China and doesn't get you a passport stamp. (Disclaimer: US immigration politics are crazy right now, so obviously take all that with a healthy grain of salt)
    - alexhutcheson 7y ago
      It's hard for me to understand why someone would want to go after reading about the case of Otto Warmbier[1]. There are plenty of interesting and exciting places to visit in the world that don't put you at the mercy of DPRK officials and their reaction to geopolitical events. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Warmbier https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Warmbier
InertiaNetwork 7y ago
You can't enter the country anymore with a US passport, but you certainly still can if you're a dual citizen. Many tour operators regularly take people into North Korea to see guided tours. Keep in mind though, these are highly structured tours that are designed to keep you in line and only see certain things. You will be extremely safe while in the country, it's basically like a giant airport. Play in the boundaries and you're fine. Tens of thousands of tourists go there annually. I am actually running a Hockey tournament in Pyongyang as a way to bridge the gap if anybody is interested. Unlike most tour operators, because we operate directly through the Ministry of Sports, we get a lot more liberties that you typically do not get through a regular tour agency that is only looking to provide to provide a cut and dry experience. https://inertianetwork.com/pyongyang-cup https://inertianetwork.com/pyongyang-cup

js2 7y ago

Bizarre accent... almost like American actors trying to sound like Russian submariners: https://youtu.be/PBHYbeg2nao https://youtu.be/PBHYbeg2nao