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I had been worried about the Chinese influence in America for a while in the past, but recently came to the conclusion that the American value system is not at

I had been worried about the Chinese influence in America for a while in the past, but recently came to the conclusion that the American value system is not at risk of being taken over by the Chinese value system. The American system pushes forward individual freedom, humanism, liberalism, capitalism -- things that transcend the boundaries of race, borders, etc. I would argue these values were quickly adopted by many cultures because they provide a lot of value in today's market driven world. In comparison, what the PRC offers is very specific to China. The government wants to see China grow strong and lead the world. They may or may not get there, but these values offer little value to the rest of the world, especially those that have already adopted the liberal values.

dawg- 7y ago
>The American system pushes forward individual freedom, humanism, liberalism, capitalism I agree with you, but a lot of people seem to think these values are automatically parts of America - a "system" as you described it - instead of things we all have to actively achieve every single day. It's a "use it or lose it" kind of thing in my opinion. We have some of the worst voting rates in the developed world. We have illiberal values and behavior creeping into both sides of the political spectrum. On the left we have the language police, cancel culture, and a general attitude that no part of American life can take place outside of the government's sphere of influence. On the right we have blatant xenophobia, voter suppression, and a refusal to deal honestly with our country's legacy of racial oppression. Those values you listed are not magic totems that we can summon to fend off the specter of Chinese totalitarianism without any real work on our part. If we don't actively pursue them, defend them, and set examples for our children, they will die off.
- simmanian 7y ago
  I totally agree with you that we need to cherish these values because they really are precious. And I also very much agree that we have these issues creeping up, not just in America, but in many places around the world. On the other hand, I still think that there are progresses that cannot be easily undone because they simply change the way we live entirely. The Scientific Revolution is an example that comes to my mind. Regarding all the problems you listed: I think the reason we see these issues come up nowadays is in large due to the fact that the "modern" way of life that currently dominates the world -- the system that encourages individualism, consumerism, and duality, has simply met its end of life. We cannot solve the problems you listed from a dualistic viewpoint. Heck, we can't even get people to help save the environment. In that sense, I do see that we will see a huge shift toward the more Eastern values (especially the notion of interdependence) in the near future, but certainly not the ones pushed by the PRC.
dirtyid 7y ago
> PRC offers is very specific to China This is the entire reason behind "with Chinese characteristics". There is no universal Chinese model to export, the Chinese system is a product of constant experimentation that is highly situational and enabled by advantages of Chinese scale. Most countries are constrained in demographics, geography etc to replicate what China has done. The closest applicable model behind Chines development is Manchukuo, strategic protectionist policies that establish domestic industries which has fueled other Asian tigers like Japan, Korea and Taiwan. What's unique to China is sheer scale enables her reach great power parity in many fields and the ability to absorb failures without losing too much momentum. At the end of the day, the only oppression that China will export is surveillance state technology like Huawei Smart City but that's an commercial commodity like weapons, not ideology. IMO people are worried about Chinese influence because US influence is declining - that shining house on hill has become dilapidated in the last 20 years. Blaming the nouveau riche neighbor won't solve America's problems, nor will trying to stop them from getting that new pool nor coercing others in the neighborhood to avoid the new neighbors house party.
9dl 7y ago
You know, you do not need "export" anything if you occupy territory And if you have plans for 20-50 years you don't even need military or police force Just buy any politician and push your ideology and rewrite history books. And in 50 years people can't think that was something else And 50 years it is a lot. In rusian federation that was done by less that 5 years 1984
komali2 7y ago
My concern is not that the PRC will try to put PRC values on the USA, it's that they'll foment negative cultural mores here in the USA - i.e., tap into latent Islamophobia to defend their persecution of Uighur Muslims, and in doing so increase Islamophobia in the USA.
- simmanian 7y ago
  I think the _real_ problem is that our current social, political, and economic systems are ill-equipped to deal with the advances of technology. It's not just the increase in propaganda (which I argue is enabled by technology) that creates instability. It's the fact that our environment is collapsing, the capacity to modify human embryos is within our reach, longevity researches are showing promising results, millions of jobs will be replaced by automation. It is my belief that the real task is not to combat the PRC, but to figure out what systems will provide the most value in the future, and work toward those goals.

dawg- 7y ago

>The American system pushes forward individual freedom, humanism, liberalism, capitalism I agree with you, but a lot of people seem to think these values are automatically parts of America - a "system" as you described it - instead of things we all have to actively achieve every single day. It's a "use it or lose it" kind of thing in my opinion. We have some of the worst voting rates in the developed world. We have illiberal values and behavior creeping into both sides of the political spectrum. On the left we have the language police, cancel culture, and a general attitude that no part of American life can take place outside of the government's sphere of influence. On the right we have blatant xenophobia, voter suppression, and a refusal to deal honestly with our country's legacy of racial oppression. Those values you listed are not magic totems that we can summon to fend off the specter of Chinese totalitarianism without any real work on our part. If we don't actively pursue them, defend them, and set examples for our children, they will die off.

simmanian 7y ago
I totally agree with you that we need to cherish these values because they really are precious. And I also very much agree that we have these issues creeping up, not just in America, but in many places around the world. On the other hand, I still think that there are progresses that cannot be easily undone because they simply change the way we live entirely. The Scientific Revolution is an example that comes to my mind. Regarding all the problems you listed: I think the reason we see these issues come up nowadays is in large due to the fact that the "modern" way of life that currently dominates the world -- the system that encourages individualism, consumerism, and duality, has simply met its end of life. We cannot solve the problems you listed from a dualistic viewpoint. Heck, we can't even get people to help save the environment. In that sense, I do see that we will see a huge shift toward the more Eastern values (especially the notion of interdependence) in the near future, but certainly not the ones pushed by the PRC.

dirtyid 7y ago

> PRC offers is very specific to China This is the entire reason behind "with Chinese characteristics". There is no universal Chinese model to export, the Chinese system is a product of constant experimentation that is highly situational and enabled by advantages of Chinese scale. Most countries are constrained in demographics, geography etc to replicate what China has done. The closest applicable model behind Chines development is Manchukuo, strategic protectionist policies that establish domestic industries which has fueled other Asian tigers like Japan, Korea and Taiwan. What's unique to China is sheer scale enables her reach great power parity in many fields and the ability to absorb failures without losing too much momentum. At the end of the day, the only oppression that China will export is surveillance state technology like Huawei Smart City but that's an commercial commodity like weapons, not ideology. IMO people are worried about Chinese influence because US influence is declining - that shining house on hill has become dilapidated in the last 20 years. Blaming the nouveau riche neighbor won't solve America's problems, nor will trying to stop them from getting that new pool nor coercing others in the neighborhood to avoid the new neighbors house party.

9dl 7y ago

You know, you do not need "export" anything if you occupy territory And if you have plans for 20-50 years you don't even need military or police force Just buy any politician and push your ideology and rewrite history books. And in 50 years people can't think that was something else And 50 years it is a lot. In rusian federation that was done by less that 5 years 1984

komali2 7y ago

My concern is not that the PRC will try to put PRC values on the USA, it's that they'll foment negative cultural mores here in the USA - i.e., tap into latent Islamophobia to defend their persecution of Uighur Muslims, and in doing so increase Islamophobia in the USA.

simmanian 7y ago
I think the _real_ problem is that our current social, political, and economic systems are ill-equipped to deal with the advances of technology. It's not just the increase in propaganda (which I argue is enabled by technology) that creates instability. It's the fact that our environment is collapsing, the capacity to modify human embryos is within our reach, longevity researches are showing promising results, millions of jobs will be replaced by automation. It is my belief that the real task is not to combat the PRC, but to figure out what systems will provide the most value in the future, and work toward those goals.