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If she finds his treatment report worthy she should visit almost any county jail in America and write a report. I'm seriously not being flippant. If people genu

If she finds his treatment report worthy she should visit almost any county jail in America and write a report. I'm seriously not being flippant. If people genuinely find this kind of treatment disturbing and inhumane then they should know it is befalling daily many of their over 2 million incarcerated American brothers and sisters.

blattimwind 7y ago
The US justice system is possibly the most cruel justice system in the West, and by quite a margin, too. It is one of a few aspects in which the US is far closer to today's developing and third world countries than to the Western average. Also over many decades many organizations have called out the conditions in parts of the US justice system as torture(-like).
- seirl 7y ago
  Yeah, the "few aspects" like the prison system, healthcare, inequality, corruption, homelessness rates, freedom of the press, air pollution, crime rates, discrimination, police violence, homicide rates, unemployment benefits, social nets...
  - jki275 7y ago
    Seriously, if you all believe everywhere else in the world is so much better, why stay? For context, I'm married to a person from a real developing country, as it's actually defined. I'm sending multiple family members to school there so they can get out. Every single person in her family has done everything they can to get out. Every single person I know there has done everything they can to get out. Every single person they know has done everything they can to get out. Getting out is the primary motivator for people in developing countries. Whining about the country being unfair is something that perhaps privileged children who know nothing about "developing countries" do -- other people get out. The US is nothing like a developing country.
    - paulmd 7y ago
      Largely because people have roots here and it's a pain to move. What, you're supposed to quit your job, leave your extended family, sell your house and possessions, find a new job and place to live overseas, and potentially even learn an entire new language? Just to be sure you won't be tortured? (assuming you can even find a place to take you - things are easier here for this crowd, tech skills are in-demand and usually open doors, but if you are highly skilled in working a register at K-Mart you're not going to find many countries open to you when you go to immigrate somewhere else.) For a lot of people it's just easier to take the chance that you won't be one of the people who falls into the gears of justice. I won't even say "don't commit a crime" because (a) committing a crime is not even necessarily a requirement to end up in prison given how bad our judicial system is particularly surrounding plea deals/etc. Lots of innocent people end up in jail. And (b) virtually everyone regularly does things that are, by a strict enforcement of the US legal code, punishable by prison sentences. "3 felonies a day" is perhaps an exaggeration, but 3 felonies a month or a year is still a lot of potential legal exposure. The system relies heavily on prosecutorial discretion, which falls apart when you have prosecutors who are elected on the basis of high conviction rates instead of doing what is just. To put it simply: 1% chance of being tortured, vs having to uproot your whole life. A lot of people will choose the 1% chance of being tortured.
      - jki275 7y ago
        It's not a 1% chance. Even if one accepts your definition of torture, people who aren't criminals are very rarely caught up in the system at all. So it's far less than 1% as long as you're simply not a criminal. If the US were really so bad, people would leave. The people who do leave typically leave for tax purposes opposite to your belief.
        bdamm 7y ago
        Mobility is really restricted to the top half of people. Yeah, it's not so bad as to cause mass refugee exodus, but that's a very low bar to aim for. We can and should do better.
        7y ago
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- jeffdavis 7y ago
  The US is a leader in many respects, due largely to our Constitutionally-protected rights. I'm not a fan of the US prison system. But are you seriously claiming that the whole justice system is worse than Venezuela or Honduras?
  - kick 7y ago
    It's not as clear-cut as you think. Venezuela was the first country to abolish the death penalty, and it's still gone. The United States still willingly, and gleefully in some cases, executes citizens. For non-citizens, whether you get justice or not is a toss-up. We have three types of penal systems here in the United States: the actual court system, the unconstitutional-yet-protected-in-court 100-miles-from-the-border Constitution-exemption zone that contains two thirds of the US population (and a large portion of the country's non-citizens),[1-2] and the unconstitutional-yet-barred-from-being-contested-in-court intelligence agencies.[3-5] It's hard to claim that you're doing that much better when you're only so far from Abu Ghraib or Guantanamo Bay, or one of the other hundreds of black sites. Worst is when these systems mix, but it happens more and more often now.[6] [1-2 I realized this is a weird claim, but it's true, and here are two of the outlets furthest from one another politically claiming it's true to give evidence that it is] [1] https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone [2] https://www.rt.com/usa/court-upholds-laptop-border-searches-041/ https://www.rt.com/usa/court-upholds-laptop-border-searches-... [3] https://www.wired.com/2015/08/hard-sue-nsa-prove-spied/ https://www.wired.com/2015/08/hard-sue-nsa-prove-spied/ [4] https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/privacy-and-surveillance/nsa-using-secrecy-avoid-courtroom-reckoning-its https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/privacy-and-surv... [5] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/04/judge-dodges-legality-nsa-mass-spying-citing-secrecy-claims https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/04/judge-dodges-legality-... [6] https://theintercept.com/2017/11/30/nsa-surveillance-fisa-section-702/ https://theintercept.com/2017/11/30/nsa-surveillance-fisa-se...
  - SahAssar 7y ago
    That's not what s/he said. The quote is "most cruel justice system in the West, and by quite a margin, too. It is one of a few aspects in which the US is far closer to today's developing and third world countries than to the Western average." So it says that it is the worst in the west (a term that usually does not include south/central america, even though they are west on a map), and that it is closer to a third world country than many in the west. From my casual reading that seems pretty much on point. The justice system does not just mean the prison system, it encompasses laws, police, courts, correctional facilities, some portions of mental health treatment. If we are bringing up the freedoms enjoyed by citizens in different countries I'd also point out that how the constitution is interpreted seems pretty arbitrary over time depending on who is in the supreme court and what the political climate is. As an example I'm not even sure how solitary confinement can not be considered a "cruel and unusual punishment" under the eighth amendment. I don't get how NSA data collection is not a impacting the "right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects" of Fourth Amendment. The second amendment seems pretty cut-and-dry in the text that any American should be allowed to have a rocket launcher and that background checks are illegal. I'd hate for that to come true, but if you are following the principle that the constitution supersedes all lower law then it seems logical. Most western democracies seem to have similar freedoms and similar guarantees that the government will follow similarly given that they are also enshrined in law. Please correct me if I am wrong, but when I hear americans talk about their freedoms they seem to talk in absolutes, but in practice it's no more free or secure than similar freedoms given by laws in many other western countries.
- njharman 7y ago
  You don't need to qualify it with "in the west".
- Jedd 7y ago
  > The US justice system is possibly the most cruel justice system in the West ... This suggests a terminology issue -- we have the same problem here in Australia. If you assume the system is intended to mete out justice, little of it will make sense. If you think of it as a legal system, and consider it's working precisely as its benefactors & maintainers want, the arrangement makes much more sense.
- AlchemistCamp 7y ago
  > The US justice system is possibly the most cruel justice system in the West, and by quite a margin, too. Many of the world's most dangerous countries and most brutal justice systems are in Latin America. The US looks bad from a northern European perspective, but it's far from the worst in the West.
  - blattimwind 7y ago
    Off-hand I wouldn't consider Latin America in general a part of the West, not in the same way the US or Europe are. Not-so-off-hand it seems like whether Latin America is part of the Western world or something else, that "just happens" to be strongly influenced by it, is pretty open for debate.
mcv 7y ago
From what I've heard, the US prison system is indeed inhuman, and torture (solitary isolation, etc) is common. Many people inside and outside the US criticise it and call for reform.
boomboomsubban 7y ago
The United Nations has criticized the US for it's treatment of prisoners in the past, the US just ignores them. It is worth noting that the two million incarcerated are serving sentences for crimes they were convicted of, making it marginally less horrible than Assange's situation.
- tyingq 7y ago
  There are plenty of arrested, but not convicted, prisoners in city and county jails in the US. Often for months or longer.
  - boomboomsubban 7y ago
    Yes, but not the two million mentioned.
    - bluejekyll 7y ago
      It looks like aprox. 500,000 according to this article from 2016: https://www.thenation.com/article/almost-half-a-million-people-are-in-jail-awaiting-trial/ https://www.thenation.com/article/almost-half-a-million-peop...
    - tyingq 7y ago
      It's close to 500k on an average day. https://www.americasquarterly.org/aborn-prisons https://www.americasquarterly.org/aborn-prisons
  - jeffdavis 7y ago
    Progress is being made with the elimination of cash bail in some places, and Trump's First Step Act.
    - tyingq 7y ago
      At first glance, First Step looks like progress. But, it seems to only apply to Federal inmates, which is only 10% (or less) of the prison population.
eyko 7y ago
It is my understanding that the USA has been repeatedly admonished for their relationship with torture (prison system, off shore detainment centers, waterboarding, guantanamo, abu ghraib, the recent issues at the border with refugees, etc).
Allower 7y ago
It is inhumane, indeed the American so-called "justice" system is one giant human rights abuse system. its a disgrace
cannabis_sam 7y ago
The US ”justice” system has replaced justice with vengeance and punishment with suffering..
- alfromspace 7y ago
  Those who cause the innocent to suffer deserve vengeance and suffering. Why are we so concerned about the comfort of people who, the majority of the time, are in prison for violent crime? Before someone brings up "muh drugs" and only cites stats from federal prisons... "In 2011, 55.6% of the 1,131,210 sentenced prisoners in state prisons were being held for violent crimes (this number excludes the 200,966 prisoners being held due to parole violations, of which 39.6% were re-incarcerated for a subsequent violent crime).[44] Also in 2011, 3.7% of the state prison population consisted of prisoners whose highest conviction was for drug possession (again excluding those incarcerated for parole violations of which 6.0% were re-incarcerated for a subsequent act of drug possession).[44]"
  - kybernetikos 7y ago
    > Those who cause the innocent to suffer deserve vengeance and suffering. Why are we so concerned about the comfort of people who, the majority of the time, are in prison for violent crime? My understanding is that vengeance and suffering are not good teachers and once the vengeance is exacted and the suffering is complete, the criminal comes and and causes more suffering to the innocent. If this is true, then by arguing for harsh treatment for criminals, you're arguing for a state of affairs in which more innocent suffer. If causing the innocent to suffer is so bad, then maybe we should be making policy that reduces it.
  - etripe 7y ago
    Because vengeance as a central tenet in justice systems is straight from the Hammurabi code and unfit for the modern world. If your source is the Bible, I'll agree to disagree. If you want a legal system that treats citizens fairly, you want one focused on rehabilitation. Locking someone up simply doesn't accomplish that goal. Dehumanising prisoners doesn't either. What's more, crime is a proxy for socio-economic status, which given the greater inequality in the US, partly explains the disparity with other developed nations.
dhab 7y ago
I found most of the comment fine except for the part ...brothers and sisters which feels like it was designed to evoke some emotion/strong response. I assume most of us would prefer them (brothers and sisters) be there, tucked away from the vicinity of family members?
- tripzilch 7y ago
  and "tucked away" seems to evoke the idea that you actually treat them humanely, which you don't. which is the topic of discussion here. not the part where you take their freedom to keep them away from society, which the civilized countries also do.
tripzilch 7y ago
Yes, American jails and prisons are terrible. Also the fact that 2% of your adult population is in there. IMHO you should all be ashamed. The very fact that even in a normal adult conversation, an American can gleefully make a remark about anal rape and how they wish it upon whatever criminal. Sexual violence in your prison system has become so normalized that it's gotten its own little disgusting euphemism in your language: "pick up the soap". Even in polite company, use that little phrase and it's suddenly a-okay to joke about rape. It's very simple. If it's that normal, that expected, that people in prison become victims of sexual violence. Then that is what you're sentencing them to. Which is corporeal punishment. Which is barbaric. So think about that next time someone jokes about someone going to "federal pound em in the ass prison", what they are in fact advocating is that they deserve corporeal punishment by anal rape. There's something to be said about the countries where they give you beatings or lashings, they do it publicly so at least it functions as a deterrent. You hide it and pretend it's a joke because lol buttrape. So no, don't EVER bring up the American prison/jail system as some sort of "example" for how to treat criminals .. and maybe check yourself if you DON'T find it disturbing and inhumane.
tripzilch 7y ago
> If she finds his treatment report worthy she should visit almost any county jail in America and write a report. I'm seriously not being flippant. If people genuinely find this kind of treatment disturbing and inhumane then they should know it is befalling daily many of their over 2 million incarcerated American brothers and sisters. Did you miss the part where Assange went through all this trouble to not go to Sweden because there was the POSSIBILITY of him being extradited to the US end ending up in that prison system? Yes he could have also done nothing and run the very real risk of ultimately getting the worst treatment that you enact upon your brothers and sisters. But that is the whole thing he was trying to avoid. If in the process of that, he was exposed to "severe forms of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment, the cumulative effects of which can only be described as psychological torture", which MAY or MAY NOT be worse than the US prison system (which is a pretty low bar to clear and pretty bad either way), then yeah he pretty certainly has a case to be made in the parts of the world where we pretend to treat human beings with dignity. The entire point was to not end up in the clutches of the US, so if your point was "if you think that's bad, look at the US", then here's a big WELL DUH for you ...

blattimwind 7y ago

The US justice system is possibly the most cruel justice system in the West, and by quite a margin, too. It is one of a few aspects in which the US is far closer to today's developing and third world countries than to the Western average. Also over many decades many organizations have called out the conditions in parts of the US justice system as torture(-like).

seirl 7y ago
Yeah, the "few aspects" like the prison system, healthcare, inequality, corruption, homelessness rates, freedom of the press, air pollution, crime rates, discrimination, police violence, homicide rates, unemployment benefits, social nets...
- jki275 7y ago
  Seriously, if you all believe everywhere else in the world is so much better, why stay? For context, I'm married to a person from a real developing country, as it's actually defined. I'm sending multiple family members to school there so they can get out. Every single person in her family has done everything they can to get out. Every single person I know there has done everything they can to get out. Every single person they know has done everything they can to get out. Getting out is the primary motivator for people in developing countries. Whining about the country being unfair is something that perhaps privileged children who know nothing about "developing countries" do -- other people get out. The US is nothing like a developing country.
  - paulmd 7y ago
    Largely because people have roots here and it's a pain to move. What, you're supposed to quit your job, leave your extended family, sell your house and possessions, find a new job and place to live overseas, and potentially even learn an entire new language? Just to be sure you won't be tortured? (assuming you can even find a place to take you - things are easier here for this crowd, tech skills are in-demand and usually open doors, but if you are highly skilled in working a register at K-Mart you're not going to find many countries open to you when you go to immigrate somewhere else.) For a lot of people it's just easier to take the chance that you won't be one of the people who falls into the gears of justice. I won't even say "don't commit a crime" because (a) committing a crime is not even necessarily a requirement to end up in prison given how bad our judicial system is particularly surrounding plea deals/etc. Lots of innocent people end up in jail. And (b) virtually everyone regularly does things that are, by a strict enforcement of the US legal code, punishable by prison sentences. "3 felonies a day" is perhaps an exaggeration, but 3 felonies a month or a year is still a lot of potential legal exposure. The system relies heavily on prosecutorial discretion, which falls apart when you have prosecutors who are elected on the basis of high conviction rates instead of doing what is just. To put it simply: 1% chance of being tortured, vs having to uproot your whole life. A lot of people will choose the 1% chance of being tortured.
    - jki275 7y ago
      It's not a 1% chance. Even if one accepts your definition of torture, people who aren't criminals are very rarely caught up in the system at all. So it's far less than 1% as long as you're simply not a criminal. If the US were really so bad, people would leave. The people who do leave typically leave for tax purposes opposite to your belief.
      - bdamm 7y ago
        Mobility is really restricted to the top half of people. Yeah, it's not so bad as to cause mass refugee exodus, but that's a very low bar to aim for. We can and should do better.
      - 7y ago
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
jeffdavis 7y ago
The US is a leader in many respects, due largely to our Constitutionally-protected rights. I'm not a fan of the US prison system. But are you seriously claiming that the whole justice system is worse than Venezuela or Honduras?
- kick 7y ago
  It's not as clear-cut as you think. Venezuela was the first country to abolish the death penalty, and it's still gone. The United States still willingly, and gleefully in some cases, executes citizens. For non-citizens, whether you get justice or not is a toss-up. We have three types of penal systems here in the United States: the actual court system, the unconstitutional-yet-protected-in-court 100-miles-from-the-border Constitution-exemption zone that contains two thirds of the US population (and a large portion of the country's non-citizens),[1-2] and the unconstitutional-yet-barred-from-being-contested-in-court intelligence agencies.[3-5] It's hard to claim that you're doing that much better when you're only so far from Abu Ghraib or Guantanamo Bay, or one of the other hundreds of black sites. Worst is when these systems mix, but it happens more and more often now.[6] [1-2 I realized this is a weird claim, but it's true, and here are two of the outlets furthest from one another politically claiming it's true to give evidence that it is] [1] https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone [2] https://www.rt.com/usa/court-upholds-laptop-border-searches-041/ https://www.rt.com/usa/court-upholds-laptop-border-searches-... [3] https://www.wired.com/2015/08/hard-sue-nsa-prove-spied/ https://www.wired.com/2015/08/hard-sue-nsa-prove-spied/ [4] https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/privacy-and-surveillance/nsa-using-secrecy-avoid-courtroom-reckoning-its https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/privacy-and-surv... [5] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/04/judge-dodges-legality-nsa-mass-spying-citing-secrecy-claims https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/04/judge-dodges-legality-... [6] https://theintercept.com/2017/11/30/nsa-surveillance-fisa-section-702/ https://theintercept.com/2017/11/30/nsa-surveillance-fisa-se...
- SahAssar 7y ago
  That's not what s/he said. The quote is "most cruel justice system in the West, and by quite a margin, too. It is one of a few aspects in which the US is far closer to today's developing and third world countries than to the Western average." So it says that it is the worst in the west (a term that usually does not include south/central america, even though they are west on a map), and that it is closer to a third world country than many in the west. From my casual reading that seems pretty much on point. The justice system does not just mean the prison system, it encompasses laws, police, courts, correctional facilities, some portions of mental health treatment. If we are bringing up the freedoms enjoyed by citizens in different countries I'd also point out that how the constitution is interpreted seems pretty arbitrary over time depending on who is in the supreme court and what the political climate is. As an example I'm not even sure how solitary confinement can not be considered a "cruel and unusual punishment" under the eighth amendment. I don't get how NSA data collection is not a impacting the "right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects" of Fourth Amendment. The second amendment seems pretty cut-and-dry in the text that any American should be allowed to have a rocket launcher and that background checks are illegal. I'd hate for that to come true, but if you are following the principle that the constitution supersedes all lower law then it seems logical. Most western democracies seem to have similar freedoms and similar guarantees that the government will follow similarly given that they are also enshrined in law. Please correct me if I am wrong, but when I hear americans talk about their freedoms they seem to talk in absolutes, but in practice it's no more free or secure than similar freedoms given by laws in many other western countries.
njharman 7y ago
You don't need to qualify it with "in the west".
Jedd 7y ago
> The US justice system is possibly the most cruel justice system in the West ... This suggests a terminology issue -- we have the same problem here in Australia. If you assume the system is intended to mete out justice, little of it will make sense. If you think of it as a legal system, and consider it's working precisely as its benefactors & maintainers want, the arrangement makes much more sense.
AlchemistCamp 7y ago
> The US justice system is possibly the most cruel justice system in the West, and by quite a margin, too. Many of the world's most dangerous countries and most brutal justice systems are in Latin America. The US looks bad from a northern European perspective, but it's far from the worst in the West.
- blattimwind 7y ago
  Off-hand I wouldn't consider Latin America in general a part of the West, not in the same way the US or Europe are. Not-so-off-hand it seems like whether Latin America is part of the Western world or something else, that "just happens" to be strongly influenced by it, is pretty open for debate.

mcv 7y ago

From what I've heard, the US prison system is indeed inhuman, and torture (solitary isolation, etc) is common. Many people inside and outside the US criticise it and call for reform.

boomboomsubban 7y ago

The United Nations has criticized the US for it's treatment of prisoners in the past, the US just ignores them. It is worth noting that the two million incarcerated are serving sentences for crimes they were convicted of, making it marginally less horrible than Assange's situation.

tyingq 7y ago
There are plenty of arrested, but not convicted, prisoners in city and county jails in the US. Often for months or longer.
- boomboomsubban 7y ago
  Yes, but not the two million mentioned.
  - bluejekyll 7y ago
    It looks like aprox. 500,000 according to this article from 2016: https://www.thenation.com/article/almost-half-a-million-people-are-in-jail-awaiting-trial/ https://www.thenation.com/article/almost-half-a-million-peop...
  - tyingq 7y ago
    It's close to 500k on an average day. https://www.americasquarterly.org/aborn-prisons https://www.americasquarterly.org/aborn-prisons
- jeffdavis 7y ago
  Progress is being made with the elimination of cash bail in some places, and Trump's First Step Act.
  - tyingq 7y ago
    At first glance, First Step looks like progress. But, it seems to only apply to Federal inmates, which is only 10% (or less) of the prison population.

eyko 7y ago

It is my understanding that the USA has been repeatedly admonished for their relationship with torture (prison system, off shore detainment centers, waterboarding, guantanamo, abu ghraib, the recent issues at the border with refugees, etc).

Allower 7y ago

It is inhumane, indeed the American so-called "justice" system is one giant human rights abuse system. its a disgrace

cannabis_sam 7y ago

The US ”justice” system has replaced justice with vengeance and punishment with suffering..

alfromspace 7y ago
Those who cause the innocent to suffer deserve vengeance and suffering. Why are we so concerned about the comfort of people who, the majority of the time, are in prison for violent crime? Before someone brings up "muh drugs" and only cites stats from federal prisons... "In 2011, 55.6% of the 1,131,210 sentenced prisoners in state prisons were being held for violent crimes (this number excludes the 200,966 prisoners being held due to parole violations, of which 39.6% were re-incarcerated for a subsequent violent crime).[44] Also in 2011, 3.7% of the state prison population consisted of prisoners whose highest conviction was for drug possession (again excluding those incarcerated for parole violations of which 6.0% were re-incarcerated for a subsequent act of drug possession).[44]"
- kybernetikos 7y ago
  > Those who cause the innocent to suffer deserve vengeance and suffering. Why are we so concerned about the comfort of people who, the majority of the time, are in prison for violent crime? My understanding is that vengeance and suffering are not good teachers and once the vengeance is exacted and the suffering is complete, the criminal comes and and causes more suffering to the innocent. If this is true, then by arguing for harsh treatment for criminals, you're arguing for a state of affairs in which more innocent suffer. If causing the innocent to suffer is so bad, then maybe we should be making policy that reduces it.
- etripe 7y ago
  Because vengeance as a central tenet in justice systems is straight from the Hammurabi code and unfit for the modern world. If your source is the Bible, I'll agree to disagree. If you want a legal system that treats citizens fairly, you want one focused on rehabilitation. Locking someone up simply doesn't accomplish that goal. Dehumanising prisoners doesn't either. What's more, crime is a proxy for socio-economic status, which given the greater inequality in the US, partly explains the disparity with other developed nations.

dhab 7y ago

I found most of the comment fine except for the part ...brothers and sisters which feels like it was designed to evoke some emotion/strong response. I assume most of us would prefer them (brothers and sisters) be there, tucked away from the vicinity of family members?

tripzilch 7y ago
and "tucked away" seems to evoke the idea that you actually treat them humanely, which you don't. which is the topic of discussion here. not the part where you take their freedom to keep them away from society, which the civilized countries also do.

tripzilch 7y ago

Yes, American jails and prisons are terrible. Also the fact that 2% of your adult population is in there. IMHO you should all be ashamed. The very fact that even in a normal adult conversation, an American can gleefully make a remark about anal rape and how they wish it upon whatever criminal. Sexual violence in your prison system has become so normalized that it's gotten its own little disgusting euphemism in your language: "pick up the soap". Even in polite company, use that little phrase and it's suddenly a-okay to joke about rape. It's very simple. If it's that normal, that expected, that people in prison become victims of sexual violence. Then that is what you're sentencing them to. Which is corporeal punishment. Which is barbaric. So think about that next time someone jokes about someone going to "federal pound em in the ass prison", what they are in fact advocating is that they deserve corporeal punishment by anal rape. There's something to be said about the countries where they give you beatings or lashings, they do it publicly so at least it functions as a deterrent. You hide it and pretend it's a joke because lol buttrape. So no, don't EVER bring up the American prison/jail system as some sort of "example" for how to treat criminals .. and maybe check yourself if you DON'T find it disturbing and inhumane.

tripzilch 7y ago

> If she finds his treatment report worthy she should visit almost any county jail in America and write a report. I'm seriously not being flippant. If people genuinely find this kind of treatment disturbing and inhumane then they should know it is befalling daily many of their over 2 million incarcerated American brothers and sisters. Did you miss the part where Assange went through all this trouble to not go to Sweden because there was the POSSIBILITY of him being extradited to the US end ending up in that prison system? Yes he could have also done nothing and run the very real risk of ultimately getting the worst treatment that you enact upon your brothers and sisters. But that is the whole thing he was trying to avoid. If in the process of that, he was exposed to "severe forms of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment, the cumulative effects of which can only be described as psychological torture", which MAY or MAY NOT be worse than the US prison system (which is a pretty low bar to clear and pretty bad either way), then yeah he pretty certainly has a case to be made in the parts of the world where we pretend to treat human beings with dignity. The entire point was to not end up in the clutches of the US, so if your point was "if you think that's bad, look at the US", then here's a big WELL DUH for you ...