3 ms·

Would be true if individuals were rational. We are not. And without interaction and dependence on others nothing very interesting is ever found. Well explained

by hos234 7y ago

Would be true if individuals were rational. We are not. And without interaction and dependence on others nothing very interesting is ever found. Well explained here - https://www.edge.org/response-detail/25426 https://www.edge.org/response-detail/25426

keiferski 7y ago
Rationality has nothing to do with what I said. I said that groups tend to coalesce around short-term, immediate concerns. Imagination and the capacity to dream is an individual, not group, activity. It often takes a true outsider to expand the bounds of a culture's thinking or time perspective. This by definition can't come from a group. Nor is rationality itself necessarily an ideal end goal. In fact, this obsession with rationality (exemplified by sites like Less Wrong and in general by scientism-adherents) is itself a perfect example of my point - a group of individuals stuck in their worldview, incapable of seeing beyond the walls of their own local culture.
- hos234 7y ago
  Newton wasn't sitting and dreaming under a tree in the Serengeti. There was a particular group that identified, nurtured, challenged and protected him for his dreams to reach their full potential. For all we know there are a lot of top notch dreamers sitting in the Serengeti today that are going to die there because the groups they are surrounded by can't help them in anyway. Without the right group surrounding the individual good luck realizing dreams and changing the behavior or thinking of any other group.
  - mattrp 7y ago
    Change your word selection from group to community and your point is more effective. Your point about newton is exactly right and you can see it again in the physicist community that unraveled the secrets of the atom. You can see it again in the creation of the internet and again in Silicon Valley today. Communities do matter but not in the collective organizing sense that most people think of when they read the word.. more in the rapid feedback and competition for ideas.
  - keiferski 7y ago
    Well that sort of proves my point - Newton was an individual. Yes, he needed the support of a community to reach his full potential, but it wasn't the community that came up with his ideas - it was him. And for a contrarian example, consider someone like Nietzsche. Probably in the top 5 most influential philosophers of the past ±150 years and yet he wrote most of his books alone while wandering Europe. He also published most of them at his own expense and didn't have much of a readership until near his death, at which point he had gone mad from syphilis. There was no group around him and no community helping him. Yet here we are, deeply influenced by his ideas.

by hos234 7y ago

keiferski 7y ago

Rationality has nothing to do with what I said. I said that groups tend to coalesce around short-term, immediate concerns. Imagination and the capacity to dream is an individual, not group, activity. It often takes a true outsider to expand the bounds of a culture's thinking or time perspective. This by definition can't come from a group. Nor is rationality itself necessarily an ideal end goal. In fact, this obsession with rationality (exemplified by sites like Less Wrong and in general by scientism-adherents) is itself a perfect example of my point - a group of individuals stuck in their worldview, incapable of seeing beyond the walls of their own local culture.

hos234 7y ago
Newton wasn't sitting and dreaming under a tree in the Serengeti. There was a particular group that identified, nurtured, challenged and protected him for his dreams to reach their full potential. For all we know there are a lot of top notch dreamers sitting in the Serengeti today that are going to die there because the groups they are surrounded by can't help them in anyway. Without the right group surrounding the individual good luck realizing dreams and changing the behavior or thinking of any other group.
- mattrp 7y ago
  Change your word selection from group to community and your point is more effective. Your point about newton is exactly right and you can see it again in the physicist community that unraveled the secrets of the atom. You can see it again in the creation of the internet and again in Silicon Valley today. Communities do matter but not in the collective organizing sense that most people think of when they read the word.. more in the rapid feedback and competition for ideas.
- keiferski 7y ago
  Well that sort of proves my point - Newton was an individual. Yes, he needed the support of a community to reach his full potential, but it wasn't the community that came up with his ideas - it was him. And for a contrarian example, consider someone like Nietzsche. Probably in the top 5 most influential philosophers of the past ±150 years and yet he wrote most of his books alone while wandering Europe. He also published most of them at his own expense and didn't have much of a readership until near his death, at which point he had gone mad from syphilis. There was no group around him and no community helping him. Yet here we are, deeply influenced by his ideas.