4 ms·

> So "your throat hurts" after a few days' work? I'm finding it difficult to muster sympathy. It's not their fault that developers aren't using unions to extra

> So "your throat hurts" after a few days' work? I'm finding it difficult to muster sympathy. It's not their fault that developers aren't using unions to extract their share of the massive wealth that successful video games generate, and instead choose to work for free.

imglorp 7y ago
Which is interesting because a voice actor could be replaced in a day with minimal impact, but if all the tech workers in a game shop went on strike, the shop would be shut down. It's worse than that, because even if the shop could replace them all the next day, it would take months to regain momentum, if at all, using new labor.
- s_dev 7y ago
  >Which is interesting because a voice actor could be replaced in a day with minimal impact Not really -- depends on the game. If it's a big budget Batman game you're going to need Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill, they don't come cheap. Even using Troy Baker as a stand in -- fans absolutely notice -- even though Troy is good and big as a voice actor in his own right.
  - anotherman554 7y ago
    Fans will presumably buy the thing whether Mark Hamill plays the joker or not.
samirillian 7y ago
Yeah, this is great. See the top comment on Google firing apparent labor organizers: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21520129 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21520129 On the one hand, programmers are called impossibly naive for trying to organize. Then when others do organize, rather than revising the claim that it's naive to even think about organizing, they simply resent those who do.
- WrtCdEvrydy 7y ago
  Programmers will never organize. Organizing means losing the right to individual bargaining when signing a new contract. Edit: I'm not against this, but American Individualism makes people think they can get a better deal by negotiating alone.
  - boomlinde 7y ago
    Here in Sweden where collective bargaining is widespread I haven't found that it's somehow in conflict with individual bargaining. Collective bargaining results in minimums, like this is the worst deal we can give you based on collective agreement. You can still bargain individually to get a better deal than that. It can perhaps be an issue if you feel that you can be more attractive on the market by undercutting the competition, but I'd guess that the majority of game developers are not in that position.
    - michaelper22 7y ago
      In the US, in particular at least one NYC government agency, unionized "system analyst" jobs are common. They get a defined salary based on experience and level, an assigned eight hour shift with half-hour lunch break, and a clock that must be punched into on time. Another has kind and caring help desk people who nevertheless carefully watch the clock.
      - ameister14 7y ago
        The government does defined salaries based on experience and level regardless of unionization.
  - jfengel 7y ago
    And programmers in particular are taken with the notion that they are exceptional. They are, or aim to be, "10x programmers" who deserve multiples of their coworkers. They're already paid multiples of workers with comparable skills and comparable working hours -- though they do like to reinforce the myth of their superiority by working long hours. They're not the usual temporarily embarrassed millionaires. They're temporarily comfortable billionaires.

imglorp 7y ago

Which is interesting because a voice actor could be replaced in a day with minimal impact, but if all the tech workers in a game shop went on strike, the shop would be shut down. It's worse than that, because even if the shop could replace them all the next day, it would take months to regain momentum, if at all, using new labor.

s_dev 7y ago
>Which is interesting because a voice actor could be replaced in a day with minimal impact Not really -- depends on the game. If it's a big budget Batman game you're going to need Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill, they don't come cheap. Even using Troy Baker as a stand in -- fans absolutely notice -- even though Troy is good and big as a voice actor in his own right.
- anotherman554 7y ago
  Fans will presumably buy the thing whether Mark Hamill plays the joker or not.

samirillian 7y ago

Yeah, this is great. See the top comment on Google firing apparent labor organizers: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21520129 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21520129 On the one hand, programmers are called impossibly naive for trying to organize. Then when others do organize, rather than revising the claim that it's naive to even think about organizing, they simply resent those who do.

WrtCdEvrydy 7y ago
Programmers will never organize. Organizing means losing the right to individual bargaining when signing a new contract. Edit: I'm not against this, but American Individualism makes people think they can get a better deal by negotiating alone.
- boomlinde 7y ago
  Here in Sweden where collective bargaining is widespread I haven't found that it's somehow in conflict with individual bargaining. Collective bargaining results in minimums, like this is the worst deal we can give you based on collective agreement. You can still bargain individually to get a better deal than that. It can perhaps be an issue if you feel that you can be more attractive on the market by undercutting the competition, but I'd guess that the majority of game developers are not in that position.
  - michaelper22 7y ago
    In the US, in particular at least one NYC government agency, unionized "system analyst" jobs are common. They get a defined salary based on experience and level, an assigned eight hour shift with half-hour lunch break, and a clock that must be punched into on time. Another has kind and caring help desk people who nevertheless carefully watch the clock.
    - ameister14 7y ago
      The government does defined salaries based on experience and level regardless of unionization.
- jfengel 7y ago
  And programmers in particular are taken with the notion that they are exceptional. They are, or aim to be, "10x programmers" who deserve multiples of their coworkers. They're already paid multiples of workers with comparable skills and comparable working hours -- though they do like to reinforce the myth of their superiority by working long hours. They're not the usual temporarily embarrassed millionaires. They're temporarily comfortable billionaires.