9 ms·

"...they get paid per recorded hour." And, as members of the actor's union, they are paid scale. (edit: and royalties.) I'm struck by the irony that voice act

"...they get paid per recorded hour." And, as members of the actor's union, they are paid scale. (edit: and royalties.) I'm struck by the irony that voice actors (who work for a day or two on a video game) are paid royalties for years, while developers (who work crazy overtime for years on a video game) are paid a straight salary, then laid off after it ships as a "cost savings" measure. So "your throat hurts" after a few days' work? I'm finding it difficult to muster sympathy.

boomlinde 7y ago
> So "your throat hurts" after a few days' work? I'm finding it difficult to muster sympathy. It's not their fault that developers aren't using unions to extract their share of the massive wealth that successful video games generate, and instead choose to work for free.
- imglorp 7y ago
  Which is interesting because a voice actor could be replaced in a day with minimal impact, but if all the tech workers in a game shop went on strike, the shop would be shut down. It's worse than that, because even if the shop could replace them all the next day, it would take months to regain momentum, if at all, using new labor.
  - s_dev 7y ago
    >Which is interesting because a voice actor could be replaced in a day with minimal impact Not really -- depends on the game. If it's a big budget Batman game you're going to need Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill, they don't come cheap. Even using Troy Baker as a stand in -- fans absolutely notice -- even though Troy is good and big as a voice actor in his own right.
    - anotherman554 7y ago
      Fans will presumably buy the thing whether Mark Hamill plays the joker or not.
- samirillian 7y ago
  Yeah, this is great. See the top comment on Google firing apparent labor organizers: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21520129 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21520129 On the one hand, programmers are called impossibly naive for trying to organize. Then when others do organize, rather than revising the claim that it's naive to even think about organizing, they simply resent those who do.
  - WrtCdEvrydy 7y ago
    Programmers will never organize. Organizing means losing the right to individual bargaining when signing a new contract. Edit: I'm not against this, but American Individualism makes people think they can get a better deal by negotiating alone.
    - boomlinde 7y ago
      Here in Sweden where collective bargaining is widespread I haven't found that it's somehow in conflict with individual bargaining. Collective bargaining results in minimums, like this is the worst deal we can give you based on collective agreement. You can still bargain individually to get a better deal than that. It can perhaps be an issue if you feel that you can be more attractive on the market by undercutting the competition, but I'd guess that the majority of game developers are not in that position.
      - michaelper22 7y ago
        In the US, in particular at least one NYC government agency, unionized "system analyst" jobs are common. They get a defined salary based on experience and level, an assigned eight hour shift with half-hour lunch break, and a clock that must be punched into on time. Another has kind and caring help desk people who nevertheless carefully watch the clock.
        ameister14 7y ago
        The government does defined salaries based on experience and level regardless of unionization.
Peckingjay 7y ago
Just because another profession is worse off doesn't mean it does not deserve sympathy imo. Why not hope for both professions' working conditions to improve ? On a side note, unionization is gaining traction amongst game devs, which will hopefully bring some (very needed) changes within the profession.
- tim333 7y ago
  Also the median developer probably makes far more than the median actor.
  - big_chungus 7y ago
    That has to do with consistency of employment. Most developers have reliable income; at any given time, approximately two percent of the actors guild is employed. Most actors, voice and otherwise, have day jobs; fifteen percent of actor's guild members make over sixteen thousand dollars from acting.
- drcode 7y ago
  No one is allowed to complain about anything anymore in 2019 unless they are exactly the most unfortunate single human being on the entire planet.
goto11 7y ago
How is the voice actors fault that you willingly work for scraps? It is not like the voice actors salary would otherwise have gone to you.
teekert 7y ago
What do you mean with So "your throat hurts" after a few days' work? I'm finding it difficult to muster sympathy.? Why should anyone hurt anything after work? Where is the health and safety service for these people? And for you I guess... Is this some kind of sentiment I am to Dutch to understand?
- Matticus_Rex 7y ago
  Something hurting is not necessarily a safety issue. Construction workers are sore after work, whether in the Netherlands or elsewhere.
- jackhack 7y ago
  I don't think it's a Dutch vs USA thing. More a white-collar vs blue-collar dichotomy. Some people don't seem to understand or appreciate how good they have it, and their complaints ring hollow to me. It's a matter of perspective. >"Why should someone hurt after any work?" Because some work is just HARD. It involves dangerous things (chemicals, biologicals, heavy things, powerful equipment, sharp edges, heights, etc.). The world is built by people willing to take on these tough tasks and not all of it can be accomplished by a digital assistant, or through pushing a button. The bit about the actor bursting into tears from the idea of being paid to read a second day shows a serious lack of self-awareness and perspective. Ask a stone mason how his shoulders and knees feel after a few days of stacking block. Or the oilfield worker, after a few hours of stacking straws on a derrick. Same goes for the guy in the steel mill working hour 10 of a 12-hour shift, the office janitor tidying up at night, the line cook at the restaurant on the corner, or the long haul truck driver clocking mile 600 with 200 more to go. Some work is just hard. For the actors, watching a season or two of Mike Rowe's "Dirty Jobs" would be a suitable counterbalance.
wslh 7y ago
> I'm struck by the irony that voice actors (who work for a day or two on a video game) are paid royalties for years, while developers (who work crazy overtime for years on a video game) are paid a straight salary, then laid off after it ships as a "cost savings" measure. Not really. Developers have a monthly salary and a kind of work insurance paid by the company and/or the state in many parts of the world while most actors work in a risky business with sporadic work. Also, if developers start getting royalties voice actors will receive less royalties or the company income will be reduced and all this could rebalance to, for example, more expensive games or lower developer salaries that at the end could be the same total. Not saying it is not fair to paid developers royalties, just saying that sometimes there is a state of economic balance and changing it doesn't make it fairer at the end.
vincent-toups 7y ago
Shouldn't your contempt be saved for the devs who are dumb enough to work without royalties or a union contract? It seems like the voice actors are the ones who have it figured out and we are the dumb ones.
PhasmaFelis 7y ago
It's really depressing when people see that group A is doing reasonably well while group B is treated poorly, and conclude not that we should treat B better but that A needs to shut up about their problems.
- duxup 7y ago
  "but that A needs to shut up about their problems." I don't think that is what that person said or intended.
  - PhasmaFelis 7y ago
    Maybe not in the most literal sense, but I can't see how to read "So your throat hurts after a few days' work? I'm finding it difficult to muster sympathy" as anything but dismissive.
dangoor 7y ago
> And, as members of the actor's union, they are paid scale. (edit: and royalties.) I do not think it's necessarily the case that they're paid royalties. I've considered getting audiobooks made for my books and Findaway Voices[1] and ACX both provide options where you just pay per finished hour. A good narrator can cost $200 or more per finished hour, so it's not bad money and they're not assuming any risk. There are also options where the upfront payment is less and the narrator gets royalties. [1]: https://findawayvoices.com https://findawayvoices.com
analyst74 7y ago
Engineers either get full salary, or lower salary+shares, I'm not sure if minority ownership is worse than royalties.

boomlinde 7y ago

> So "your throat hurts" after a few days' work? I'm finding it difficult to muster sympathy. It's not their fault that developers aren't using unions to extract their share of the massive wealth that successful video games generate, and instead choose to work for free.

imglorp 7y ago
Which is interesting because a voice actor could be replaced in a day with minimal impact, but if all the tech workers in a game shop went on strike, the shop would be shut down. It's worse than that, because even if the shop could replace them all the next day, it would take months to regain momentum, if at all, using new labor.
- s_dev 7y ago
  >Which is interesting because a voice actor could be replaced in a day with minimal impact Not really -- depends on the game. If it's a big budget Batman game you're going to need Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill, they don't come cheap. Even using Troy Baker as a stand in -- fans absolutely notice -- even though Troy is good and big as a voice actor in his own right.
  - anotherman554 7y ago
    Fans will presumably buy the thing whether Mark Hamill plays the joker or not.
samirillian 7y ago
Yeah, this is great. See the top comment on Google firing apparent labor organizers: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21520129 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21520129 On the one hand, programmers are called impossibly naive for trying to organize. Then when others do organize, rather than revising the claim that it's naive to even think about organizing, they simply resent those who do.
- WrtCdEvrydy 7y ago
  Programmers will never organize. Organizing means losing the right to individual bargaining when signing a new contract. Edit: I'm not against this, but American Individualism makes people think they can get a better deal by negotiating alone.
  - boomlinde 7y ago
    Here in Sweden where collective bargaining is widespread I haven't found that it's somehow in conflict with individual bargaining. Collective bargaining results in minimums, like this is the worst deal we can give you based on collective agreement. You can still bargain individually to get a better deal than that. It can perhaps be an issue if you feel that you can be more attractive on the market by undercutting the competition, but I'd guess that the majority of game developers are not in that position.
    - michaelper22 7y ago
      In the US, in particular at least one NYC government agency, unionized "system analyst" jobs are common. They get a defined salary based on experience and level, an assigned eight hour shift with half-hour lunch break, and a clock that must be punched into on time. Another has kind and caring help desk people who nevertheless carefully watch the clock.
      - ameister14 7y ago
        The government does defined salaries based on experience and level regardless of unionization.

Peckingjay 7y ago

Just because another profession is worse off doesn't mean it does not deserve sympathy imo. Why not hope for both professions' working conditions to improve ? On a side note, unionization is gaining traction amongst game devs, which will hopefully bring some (very needed) changes within the profession.

tim333 7y ago
Also the median developer probably makes far more than the median actor.
- big_chungus 7y ago
  That has to do with consistency of employment. Most developers have reliable income; at any given time, approximately two percent of the actors guild is employed. Most actors, voice and otherwise, have day jobs; fifteen percent of actor's guild members make over sixteen thousand dollars from acting.
drcode 7y ago
No one is allowed to complain about anything anymore in 2019 unless they are exactly the most unfortunate single human being on the entire planet.

goto11 7y ago

How is the voice actors fault that you willingly work for scraps? It is not like the voice actors salary would otherwise have gone to you.

teekert 7y ago

What do you mean with So "your throat hurts" after a few days' work? I'm finding it difficult to muster sympathy.? Why should anyone hurt anything after work? Where is the health and safety service for these people? And for you I guess... Is this some kind of sentiment I am to Dutch to understand?

Matticus_Rex 7y ago
Something hurting is not necessarily a safety issue. Construction workers are sore after work, whether in the Netherlands or elsewhere.
jackhack 7y ago
I don't think it's a Dutch vs USA thing. More a white-collar vs blue-collar dichotomy. Some people don't seem to understand or appreciate how good they have it, and their complaints ring hollow to me. It's a matter of perspective. >"Why should someone hurt after any work?" Because some work is just HARD. It involves dangerous things (chemicals, biologicals, heavy things, powerful equipment, sharp edges, heights, etc.). The world is built by people willing to take on these tough tasks and not all of it can be accomplished by a digital assistant, or through pushing a button. The bit about the actor bursting into tears from the idea of being paid to read a second day shows a serious lack of self-awareness and perspective. Ask a stone mason how his shoulders and knees feel after a few days of stacking block. Or the oilfield worker, after a few hours of stacking straws on a derrick. Same goes for the guy in the steel mill working hour 10 of a 12-hour shift, the office janitor tidying up at night, the line cook at the restaurant on the corner, or the long haul truck driver clocking mile 600 with 200 more to go. Some work is just hard. For the actors, watching a season or two of Mike Rowe's "Dirty Jobs" would be a suitable counterbalance.

wslh 7y ago

> I'm struck by the irony that voice actors (who work for a day or two on a video game) are paid royalties for years, while developers (who work crazy overtime for years on a video game) are paid a straight salary, then laid off after it ships as a "cost savings" measure. Not really. Developers have a monthly salary and a kind of work insurance paid by the company and/or the state in many parts of the world while most actors work in a risky business with sporadic work. Also, if developers start getting royalties voice actors will receive less royalties or the company income will be reduced and all this could rebalance to, for example, more expensive games or lower developer salaries that at the end could be the same total. Not saying it is not fair to paid developers royalties, just saying that sometimes there is a state of economic balance and changing it doesn't make it fairer at the end.

vincent-toups 7y ago

Shouldn't your contempt be saved for the devs who are dumb enough to work without royalties or a union contract? It seems like the voice actors are the ones who have it figured out and we are the dumb ones.

PhasmaFelis 7y ago

It's really depressing when people see that group A is doing reasonably well while group B is treated poorly, and conclude not that we should treat B better but that A needs to shut up about their problems.

duxup 7y ago
"but that A needs to shut up about their problems." I don't think that is what that person said or intended.
- PhasmaFelis 7y ago
  Maybe not in the most literal sense, but I can't see how to read "So your throat hurts after a few days' work? I'm finding it difficult to muster sympathy" as anything but dismissive.

dangoor 7y ago

> And, as members of the actor's union, they are paid scale. (edit: and royalties.) I do not think it's necessarily the case that they're paid royalties. I've considered getting audiobooks made for my books and Findaway Voices[1] and ACX both provide options where you just pay per finished hour. A good narrator can cost $200 or more per finished hour, so it's not bad money and they're not assuming any risk. There are also options where the upfront payment is less and the narrator gets royalties. [1]: https://findawayvoices.com https://findawayvoices.com

analyst74 7y ago

Engineers either get full salary, or lower salary+shares, I'm not sure if minority ownership is worse than royalties.