3 ms·

> This is another interesting part. How can the US "force" a sophisticated wealthy sovereign nation that culturally and morally values banking privacy (not only

> This is another interesting part. How can the US "force" a sophisticated wealthy sovereign nation that culturally and morally values banking privacy (not only for the profits), like Switzerland? Two reasons come to mind: 1. Switzerland (like EU countries) depends a 100 % on the US for defense, in the sense it would basically turn into Russia / China overnight if the US wasn't a military power protecting them. This alone gives the US pretty much unlimited political leverage. 2. The US has the number 1 world wide spying agency, which acts as the leader to other "Western" spying agencies (see point 1). This means the US knows everything about everybody and thus has unlimited political leverage over anybody. Again this reason alone gives them quite a bit of political leverage over even a country like Switzerland (hands down the most democratic country in the world). Even though Switzerland has political safeguards in place that no other country has (direct democracy); in this case I guess Swiss people didn't mind (or didn't care about) sharing banking info with the US. After all: this helps tax evasion, so why vote against that... You give some other answers yourself :P There's no reason for the US to compromise on anything with any country in the Western world. And they don't. See for example: leaked cables on Wikileaks for tons of examples of good deals for the US and shitty deals for all counterparts.

antientropic 7y ago
> Switzerland (like EU countries) depends a 100 % on the US for defense, in the sense it would basically turn into Russia / China overnight if the US wasn't a military power protecting them. Neither Switzerland nor the EU depend "100%" on the US for defense, far from it. Some EU countries are among the biggest military spenders in the world. It's also difficult to see how Switzerland would "turn into Russia / China overnight" given that it's completely surrounded by the EU. How do you imagine that the Russians or Chinese will come to dominate Switzerland? Note that Switzerland managed to maintain its independence in WWII even though it was completely surrounded by the Axis.
- bboygravity 7y ago
  China vs France: https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.asp?form=form&country1=china&country2=france&Submit=COMPARE https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.... Russia vs France: https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.asp?form=form&country1=russia&country2=france&Submit=COMPARE https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.... Russia vs Germany: https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.asp?form=form&country1=russia&country2=germany&Submit=COMPARE https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.... The rest of Europe has no military power to speak of. Random example: the Dutch tank force consists of 0 tanks. > How do you imagine that the Russians or Chinese will come to dominate Switzerland? Admittedly Switzerland is probably one of the toughest to beat in Europe due to their strategic advantages (mountains, bunkers, infrastructure pre-rigged with explosives, relatively lots of reservists). However, just look at the numbers above. If the US didn't exist, the EU wouldn't be the EU unless they had 10x the military power they have now to defend themselves. > Note that Switzerland managed to maintain its independence in WWII even though it was completely surrounded by the Axis. A few facts about that: 1. It did so partly through secret deals with the Nazis. Ever wonder where the stolen gold of the dead jews was stored and smelted? Right... CH 2. The world's current military and political powers aren't comparable in any way to those during the second world war. 3. The Netherlands was neutral during the first world war. In the second world ware they fought the Germans for 3 days before they lost. That's right. 3 days. The fact that a country managed to stay neutral 70+ years ago says absolutely nothing about whether they would achieve the same again now, with totally different potential enemies. And a completely different distribution of military powers.
- stef25 7y ago
  As a European, considering the hypothetical scenario of Russia or China steamrolling their military in to our territory I don't have much faith in how long we'd hold out. We're good at bureaucracy and social things, not at fighting.
Bayart 7y ago
>in the sense it would basically turn into Russia / China overnight if the US wasn't a military power protecting them Russia doesn't have any power beyond posturing to overly sensitive Eastern Europeans and China can't project much beyond their loans (and that's if they're willing to spend the little currency reserves they have). There's quite a bit of resistance to NATO in parts of Europe these days precisely because the US is both unneeded and overbearing.

antientropic 7y ago

> Switzerland (like EU countries) depends a 100 % on the US for defense, in the sense it would basically turn into Russia / China overnight if the US wasn't a military power protecting them. Neither Switzerland nor the EU depend "100%" on the US for defense, far from it. Some EU countries are among the biggest military spenders in the world. It's also difficult to see how Switzerland would "turn into Russia / China overnight" given that it's completely surrounded by the EU. How do you imagine that the Russians or Chinese will come to dominate Switzerland? Note that Switzerland managed to maintain its independence in WWII even though it was completely surrounded by the Axis.

bboygravity 7y ago
China vs France: https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.asp?form=form&country1=china&country2=france&Submit=COMPARE https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.... Russia vs France: https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.asp?form=form&country1=russia&country2=france&Submit=COMPARE https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.... Russia vs Germany: https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.asp?form=form&country1=russia&country2=germany&Submit=COMPARE https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.... The rest of Europe has no military power to speak of. Random example: the Dutch tank force consists of 0 tanks. > How do you imagine that the Russians or Chinese will come to dominate Switzerland? Admittedly Switzerland is probably one of the toughest to beat in Europe due to their strategic advantages (mountains, bunkers, infrastructure pre-rigged with explosives, relatively lots of reservists). However, just look at the numbers above. If the US didn't exist, the EU wouldn't be the EU unless they had 10x the military power they have now to defend themselves. > Note that Switzerland managed to maintain its independence in WWII even though it was completely surrounded by the Axis. A few facts about that: 1. It did so partly through secret deals with the Nazis. Ever wonder where the stolen gold of the dead jews was stored and smelted? Right... CH 2. The world's current military and political powers aren't comparable in any way to those during the second world war. 3. The Netherlands was neutral during the first world war. In the second world ware they fought the Germans for 3 days before they lost. That's right. 3 days. The fact that a country managed to stay neutral 70+ years ago says absolutely nothing about whether they would achieve the same again now, with totally different potential enemies. And a completely different distribution of military powers.
stef25 7y ago
As a European, considering the hypothetical scenario of Russia or China steamrolling their military in to our territory I don't have much faith in how long we'd hold out. We're good at bureaucracy and social things, not at fighting.

Bayart 7y ago

>in the sense it would basically turn into Russia / China overnight if the US wasn't a military power protecting them Russia doesn't have any power beyond posturing to overly sensitive Eastern Europeans and China can't project much beyond their loans (and that's if they're willing to spend the little currency reserves they have). There's quite a bit of resistance to NATO in parts of Europe these days precisely because the US is both unneeded and overbearing.