5 ms·

Huh?? 64gb of ram, bigger screen, much more powerful GpU, bigger storage options, better thermals, better microphone, better speakers, bigger battery...it’s def

by usaphp 7y ago

Huh?? 64gb of ram, bigger screen, much more powerful GpU, bigger storage options, better thermals, better microphone, better speakers, bigger battery...it’s definitely not just “the same CPU” and a fixed keyboard”...not sure what else did you expect?

bilbo0s 7y ago
The 64GB of ram alone makes the new 16" a completely different machine. It really can't even be compared to the previous generations. 64 opens up a lot of possibilities in the media creation space that, realistically, were just not there with 32, and were pretty much impossible with 16 gig. Given a choice, I would much rather have had the 64 gig rather than a new keyboard. A keyboard you can put a cover on. There's no mitigating 16 gig. With this release however, Apple chose to give us both, as well as a GPU with 8. So yeah, the machine is a significant upgrade. Anyone saying otherwise is probably in a demographic where they really don't need the GPU or the extra ram. So they don't see the value in them.
- hvidgaard 7y ago
  If 64GiB of ram makes that difference, doesn't that work belong on a workstation with the power to handle it?
  - bilbo0s 7y ago
    Sure. But how you gonna get that workstation to the location where the client is shooting?
  - matthewmacleod 7y ago
    Right, and this machine moves further towards a portable workstation by embedding more power, allowing people to do some tasks on-site that would have previously required a fixed workstation. The “but why would you want a powerful portable machine” argument has always seemed really strange to me. It’s the same reason I’d want any portable machine.
    - visarga 7y ago
      The more powerful, the less portable. It's a tradeoff.
      - hrktb 7y ago
        Our current machines are more powerful than past workstations yet more portable. I get what you are pointing at, but it's a tradeoff only regarding what you prioritise. We still can improve on both fronts with different approaches.
      - fastball 7y ago
        ... until you put 64GB of RAM in a laptop.
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    Modern workstations are laptops with docking stations, for example ThinkPad P50. Those bulky desktops of yore are now clustered pizza boxes.
  - jrockway 7y ago
    I don't think people like having multiple computers, and since they need portability, they want a beefy laptop. I personally hate spending time on all the incidental configuration that having multiple computers entails; keeping them up to date, making sure that all your settings are sync'd, and the inevitable configuration that isn't in easily git-able config files that you have to perform manually each time. I also find it to be a pain in the ass to unplug and plug laptops in to docking stations; you get up for a meeting, none of your windows are where you left them when you get back. So I just use an iPad and ssh to where I need to work. This doesn't work for everyone, but since I mostly only use a web browser and a tmux session, it works fine for me. And thus, I don't have to deal with configuring multiple computers or carrying around a heavy laptop. Great when you travel; it's hard to say "no computer this trip!" and the iPad fills the gap nicely. If you are travelling for work, there will be a computer with an ssh client on it for you when you arrive. If you are travelling for fun, you probably don't want to spend a ton of time on the computer, but it's nice to be able to watch a movie in your hotel room or peruse an ebook before bed. So I just have a very powerful workstation and a very underpowered non-laptop, and get what I think the best of both worlds is. But many people really like having the same setup at home, at work, and when travelling, and for those people, the beefy laptop seems like the right solution. (They probably also use programs that were developed after 1980, and need the GUI anyway. I think I would be stuck if I needed to use Fusion 360 or lay out a PCB while out and about with my iPad. But it's never come up for me.) (My experience is based on my 2015 Macbook that I had at work. It didn't have a docking station, so every meeting that you took it to involved unplugging at least 4 cables; power, USB hub, 2 monitors. OS X appeared to be worse than Linux at handling displays going away, so it was always a major undertaking for something that should not be a major undertaking. I'm not really a Mac person, though, so maybe I was doing it wrong. My personal laptop was a Surface Pro. I never used it except when travelling, so whenever I arrived at my destination it would turn on and say "hey you haven't updated me for like 3 months, this is a major crisis and I am going to freak out until updates are installed. This requires 1TB of data and 12 hours. Have fun! Oh by the way, all your settings are gone now and if you change them, I will also change them for you on your desktop at home when you log back in! Fun stuff! Value add! Innovation!" No more.)
  - irrational 7y ago
    My company uses freestyle seating (which sucks big time, but that's a story for a different day) which means a desktop or workstation is not a possibility for me. Anything that can make a laptop closer in power to a workstation is great in my book.
    - kkarakk 7y ago
      Your neck must be killing you, everyone in freestyle seating ends up hunched over their laptops. Unless they also give you nice laptop stands to put on your "freestyle" desk?
      - wil421 7y ago
        I worked at a company with freestyle seating. Out of the 2,000+ seats everyone had a movable standing desk and at least one monitor. Most desks had 2 monitors. No hunching required.
- tiborsaas 7y ago
  What's impossible with 16gig? Isn't disk cache a thing?
  - fastball 7y ago
    If you're doing high res video editing with many layers, I'm assuming you don't want to deal with everything having to be writ to/read from disk.
  - tekknik 7y ago
    disks are slow, even SSDs / flash. not to mention eating cycles of the SSD. you want to go the other way with it, cache the disk to ram, not the other way around.
tolmasky 7y ago
I specifically brought up the speakers as the key differentiator beyond the keyboard, so I find it really weird to include in your list of things I “missed” about this computer. Beyond that, I address most of the others in this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21570906 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21570906
- creddit 7y ago
  That wasn't a list of things you missed. It was his list of the features in the upgrade to show it wasn't that you said.
  - tolmasky 7y ago
    Well he quoted something that was itself a hypothetical quote from a story I made in my comment to explain the addition of the speakers, so I think it’s weird to pretend that my statement was “it’s just the same keyboard with the same CPU” when I obviously pointed out the speakers. Wait a minute, why am I explaining this to you, if you read both comments you already know that it’s plainly obvious that his list absolutely is supposed to represent things I supposedly missed and you’re trying, unsuccessfully, to make a purely semantics based argument.
    - Chris_Chambers 7y ago
      You might have autism.
gsaga 7y ago
What is it going to do with 64GB of ram? Load the whole OS in memory?
- fastball 7y ago
  With 64GB of RAM I might be able to open, like, 12 Chrome tabs.
  - dkonofalski 7y ago
    Woah. Slow down there. Maybe 6 max.

by usaphp 7y ago

bilbo0s 7y ago

The 64GB of ram alone makes the new 16" a completely different machine. It really can't even be compared to the previous generations. 64 opens up a lot of possibilities in the media creation space that, realistically, were just not there with 32, and were pretty much impossible with 16 gig. Given a choice, I would much rather have had the 64 gig rather than a new keyboard. A keyboard you can put a cover on. There's no mitigating 16 gig. With this release however, Apple chose to give us both, as well as a GPU with 8. So yeah, the machine is a significant upgrade. Anyone saying otherwise is probably in a demographic where they really don't need the GPU or the extra ram. So they don't see the value in them.

hvidgaard 7y ago
If 64GiB of ram makes that difference, doesn't that work belong on a workstation with the power to handle it?
- bilbo0s 7y ago
  Sure. But how you gonna get that workstation to the location where the client is shooting?
- matthewmacleod 7y ago
  Right, and this machine moves further towards a portable workstation by embedding more power, allowing people to do some tasks on-site that would have previously required a fixed workstation. The “but why would you want a powerful portable machine” argument has always seemed really strange to me. It’s the same reason I’d want any portable machine.
  - visarga 7y ago
    The more powerful, the less portable. It's a tradeoff.
    - hrktb 7y ago
      Our current machines are more powerful than past workstations yet more portable. I get what you are pointing at, but it's a tradeoff only regarding what you prioritise. We still can improve on both fronts with different approaches.
    - fastball 7y ago
      ... until you put 64GB of RAM in a laptop.
- pjmlp 7y ago
  Modern workstations are laptops with docking stations, for example ThinkPad P50. Those bulky desktops of yore are now clustered pizza boxes.
- jrockway 7y ago
  I don't think people like having multiple computers, and since they need portability, they want a beefy laptop. I personally hate spending time on all the incidental configuration that having multiple computers entails; keeping them up to date, making sure that all your settings are sync'd, and the inevitable configuration that isn't in easily git-able config files that you have to perform manually each time. I also find it to be a pain in the ass to unplug and plug laptops in to docking stations; you get up for a meeting, none of your windows are where you left them when you get back. So I just use an iPad and ssh to where I need to work. This doesn't work for everyone, but since I mostly only use a web browser and a tmux session, it works fine for me. And thus, I don't have to deal with configuring multiple computers or carrying around a heavy laptop. Great when you travel; it's hard to say "no computer this trip!" and the iPad fills the gap nicely. If you are travelling for work, there will be a computer with an ssh client on it for you when you arrive. If you are travelling for fun, you probably don't want to spend a ton of time on the computer, but it's nice to be able to watch a movie in your hotel room or peruse an ebook before bed. So I just have a very powerful workstation and a very underpowered non-laptop, and get what I think the best of both worlds is. But many people really like having the same setup at home, at work, and when travelling, and for those people, the beefy laptop seems like the right solution. (They probably also use programs that were developed after 1980, and need the GUI anyway. I think I would be stuck if I needed to use Fusion 360 or lay out a PCB while out and about with my iPad. But it's never come up for me.) (My experience is based on my 2015 Macbook that I had at work. It didn't have a docking station, so every meeting that you took it to involved unplugging at least 4 cables; power, USB hub, 2 monitors. OS X appeared to be worse than Linux at handling displays going away, so it was always a major undertaking for something that should not be a major undertaking. I'm not really a Mac person, though, so maybe I was doing it wrong. My personal laptop was a Surface Pro. I never used it except when travelling, so whenever I arrived at my destination it would turn on and say "hey you haven't updated me for like 3 months, this is a major crisis and I am going to freak out until updates are installed. This requires 1TB of data and 12 hours. Have fun! Oh by the way, all your settings are gone now and if you change them, I will also change them for you on your desktop at home when you log back in! Fun stuff! Value add! Innovation!" No more.)
- irrational 7y ago
  My company uses freestyle seating (which sucks big time, but that's a story for a different day) which means a desktop or workstation is not a possibility for me. Anything that can make a laptop closer in power to a workstation is great in my book.
  - kkarakk 7y ago
    Your neck must be killing you, everyone in freestyle seating ends up hunched over their laptops. Unless they also give you nice laptop stands to put on your "freestyle" desk?
    - wil421 7y ago
      I worked at a company with freestyle seating. Out of the 2,000+ seats everyone had a movable standing desk and at least one monitor. Most desks had 2 monitors. No hunching required.
tiborsaas 7y ago
What's impossible with 16gig? Isn't disk cache a thing?
- fastball 7y ago
  If you're doing high res video editing with many layers, I'm assuming you don't want to deal with everything having to be writ to/read from disk.
- tekknik 7y ago
  disks are slow, even SSDs / flash. not to mention eating cycles of the SSD. you want to go the other way with it, cache the disk to ram, not the other way around.

tolmasky 7y ago

I specifically brought up the speakers as the key differentiator beyond the keyboard, so I find it really weird to include in your list of things I “missed” about this computer. Beyond that, I address most of the others in this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21570906 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21570906

creddit 7y ago
That wasn't a list of things you missed. It was his list of the features in the upgrade to show it wasn't that you said.
- tolmasky 7y ago
  Well he quoted something that was itself a hypothetical quote from a story I made in my comment to explain the addition of the speakers, so I think it’s weird to pretend that my statement was “it’s just the same keyboard with the same CPU” when I obviously pointed out the speakers. Wait a minute, why am I explaining this to you, if you read both comments you already know that it’s plainly obvious that his list absolutely is supposed to represent things I supposedly missed and you’re trying, unsuccessfully, to make a purely semantics based argument.
  - Chris_Chambers 7y ago
    You might have autism.

gsaga 7y ago

What is it going to do with 64GB of ram? Load the whole OS in memory?

fastball 7y ago
With 64GB of RAM I might be able to open, like, 12 Chrome tabs.
- dkonofalski 7y ago
  Woah. Slow down there. Maybe 6 max.