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> a file saying "hello world" is enough to get the text to show on a browser Wrong. A file saying "hello world" does not even serve its contents through HTTP o

> a file saying "hello world" is enough to get the text to show on a browser Wrong. A file saying "hello world" does not even serve its contents through HTTP on port 80, contrary to the node.js-example you are arguing against. Good luck setting up that Apache monstrosity (as it was common back then) without any "programming knowledge whatsoever". But yeah, I guess your mentioned stockholm syndrome is a thing for PHP people, too.

lhorie 7y ago
It sounds like you've never actually used PHP. Even way back when, you could pick from multiple pre-packaged solutions (XAMPP, WAMP, etc). In windows, the installer was a no-brainer click-through wizard, much like any other random software you'd find on sourceforge or whatever. And not only it would setup apache, but also mysql. Then you could click a button to turn on PHP (so no need to type anything in terminal either). You could also get hosting and upload your PHP files via a browser interface to put your hello world live on the web without ever typing any "code" other than the text "hello world" on a index.php file in notepad. Not even knowledge of version control was required for this form of deployment (though, of course, you can also follow standard industry best practices like with any other mainstream language).
- numlock86 7y ago
  > you could pick from multiple pre-packaged solutions > like any other random software you'd find on sourceforge or whatever > could click a button to turn on PHP > etc. tl;dr you don't need to know anything. Good summary of why PHP in production "back the days" was usually of very poor quality.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - lhorie 7y ago
    "Poor quality" comes with the territory of popularity. Everyone talks about Java over-engineering horror stories and the Javascript community even coined the "Javascript fatigue" term to summarize the pervasive quality issues in its ecosystem. But naturally it's perfectly possible to write good quality codebases in those languages.
minxomat 7y ago
Sure it does. php -S localhost:8080 It's that easy. For both node and PHP (and any other server), you will end up with more plumbing in production anyway. For example, having a load balancer, cache or other ingress in front of the service. These kinds of universal network layer functions (which I'd argue even include authorization and authentication) should not be part of your code anyway, but part of the network infrastructure (k8s and OPA e.g.)
- numlock86 7y ago
  > Sure it does. > php -S localhost:8080 Ok, are we talking about single files now or command line commands? Make up your mind.

lhorie 7y ago

It sounds like you've never actually used PHP. Even way back when, you could pick from multiple pre-packaged solutions (XAMPP, WAMP, etc). In windows, the installer was a no-brainer click-through wizard, much like any other random software you'd find on sourceforge or whatever. And not only it would setup apache, but also mysql. Then you could click a button to turn on PHP (so no need to type anything in terminal either). You could also get hosting and upload your PHP files via a browser interface to put your hello world live on the web without ever typing any "code" other than the text "hello world" on a index.php file in notepad. Not even knowledge of version control was required for this form of deployment (though, of course, you can also follow standard industry best practices like with any other mainstream language).

numlock86 7y ago
> you could pick from multiple pre-packaged solutions > like any other random software you'd find on sourceforge or whatever > could click a button to turn on PHP > etc. tl;dr you don't need to know anything. Good summary of why PHP in production "back the days" was usually of very poor quality.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- lhorie 7y ago
  "Poor quality" comes with the territory of popularity. Everyone talks about Java over-engineering horror stories and the Javascript community even coined the "Javascript fatigue" term to summarize the pervasive quality issues in its ecosystem. But naturally it's perfectly possible to write good quality codebases in those languages.

minxomat 7y ago

Sure it does. php -S localhost:8080 It's that easy. For both node and PHP (and any other server), you will end up with more plumbing in production anyway. For example, having a load balancer, cache or other ingress in front of the service. These kinds of universal network layer functions (which I'd argue even include authorization and authentication) should not be part of your code anyway, but part of the network infrastructure (k8s and OPA e.g.)

numlock86 7y ago
> Sure it does. > php -S localhost:8080 Ok, are we talking about single files now or command line commands? Make up your mind.