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> These high-empathy students were also more likely to be amused by reports that students protesting the speech had injured a bystander sympathetic to the speak
by rdtsc 7y ago
> These high-empathy students were also more likely to be amused by reports that students protesting the speech had injured a bystander sympathetic to the speaker.
> one gauges people’s level of “empathic concern” by asking them how strongly they agree or disagree with a series of seven statements such as “I often have tender, concerned feelings for people less fortunate than me.”
It seems like a problematic way to measure empathy. I don't think it would be surprising that people who claim to have a lot of empathy in surveys, or in general conversations, would demonstrate a lack of empathy in their actions.
My tongue-in-cheek version of the abstract would be something like "...We argue that, in practice, the _self-reported_ experience of empathy ... can actually exacerbate political polarization."
- koboll 7y agoThe truly empathetic might be humble about it, whereas sociopaths would seem to be the most concerned at coming across as virtuous in the way they describe themselves
- um_ya 7y agoSan Francisco has entered the chat
- baked_ziti 7y agoThe word does seem to be taking on a different meaning as time goes on. People seem to intend for it to mean "care and consideration for the ingroup as I define it." Which is of course, not its actual meaning.
- allovernow 7y agoSure it is. Nothing about the definition of empathy suggests that it isn't selective. We are generally empathetic but still eat animals. Some cultures still eat dog - you don't think they can love their children?
- baked_ziti 7y agoI think that taking unironic pleasure at the misfortune of others, or wishing others harm, and the capacity to do so, is the literal opposite of empathy. > Some cultures still eat dog - you don't think they can love their children? This is a non-sequitur.
- smallnamespace 7y agoI think it's pretty popular to hate Nazis right now, does that make one an umepathetic individual?
- chillwaves 7y agoPeople can have conflicting emotions. It's possible to hate the ideology without hating the people attached to it. "Hate the sin, not the sinner."
- Sean1708 7y agoI wouldn't consider hate and empathy mutually exclusive personally (e.g. you can empathise with somebody that was bullied by their parents, but still hate them because they bully their children), but I do think that somebody that derives pleasure from the suffering of someone that they hate is unempathetic.
- Retric 7y agoHate and empathy are unrelated. To paraphrase it’s possible to hate the game not the player. The WWI Christmas truce in 1914 shows this dynamic very clearly. It’s likely these people had great empathy for each other as they where in similar situations even sleeping in the same trenches as the front moved around. Yet, eventually they went back to killing each other. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_truce https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_truce
- jessaustin 7y agoThose war victims didn't necessarily hate each other. They killed because they had to. Those who were subtle in their reluctance to kill were more likely to be killed in battle. Those who weren't subtle were court-martialed and executed.
- User23 7y agoThis leads me to believe that what's actually being measured here is neuroticism[1] and not empathy. It's pretty easy to see how the two could be confused, since the former is sensitivity to one's own emotions and the latter is sensitivity to the emotions of others. Obviously people with neurotic tendencies are particularly prone to ego-preserving fictions like believing that they are empathetic and not neurotic. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroticism
- Doxin 7y ago> “I often have tender, concerned feelings for people less fortunate than me.” Phrasing like that seems to be a common problem with these sorts of surveys. I'd like to think I'm an emphatic person, reading some of the messages from the people stuck in the siege at that hong kong university definitely gets me all of the feels, but I'd still probably answer no to that question. I certainly feel for them, I can barely imagine what it would be like to be in their position, but they aren't "tender" feelings I don't think. Sympathy makes me feel sorry for them, Empathy makes me angry at china. I'd hardly consider anger to be tender. Another long rant without a good conclusion. I guess that I feel what's missing from these sorts of questions is a way to qualify your answers. I'd like a "yes, but" and a "no, but" option.
- crusso 7y agoI think that you're on to something. If they're confusing empathy for virtue signaling, the results are going to seem counterintuitive.
- _Codemonkeyism 7y agoI'm not sure how a field of science can work without any established basics. Shouldn't there be a standard, thoroughly tested, agreed upon definition of "empathy" so one can build on top of that?
- DFHippie 7y agoI don't think the problem is the definition of empathy but the measurement of it.
- _Codemonkeyism 7y agoYou're right, I thought "tested" did include that.
- timwaagh 7y agothere are multiple definitions in active use, so that's another problem.
- scottlocklin 7y agoPretty sure behavior which includes laughing at someone who got the crap beat out of them means, "low on empathy." No matter what their self-talk might involve. It's not like evil people walk around with self conception that includes "gee I think I'll do some evil today."
- timwaagh 7y agoRelying on self reported things is a big problem with a lot of psychological research. It is very hard to do it otherwise because sympathetic feelings are an inner world experience. Only if we found something measurable that coincided with these feelings in almost all instances could we improve upon it.
- umvi 7y agoIt's almost like you need unaffiliated third parties to rank people on their good qualities. "Are you humble?" "Oh yes, definitely, I'm one of the most humble people I know" "Are you a good person?" "Oh yes, one of the best" vs. "How humble would you say your co-worker is?" "Hmm, in my opinion probably average humility. I've never seen them do anything that made me think they were especially humble." "Would you say your co-worker is a good person?" "Hard to tell. They don't particularly stand out as being especially good."
- whatshisface 7y agoThat's subject to a lot of well-known social biases, for example the fact that more attractive people are perceived to be smarter and better-intentioned.
- notyourloops 7y agoIt seems like being human is a messy affair, and one particularly hard to sort out.
- umvi 7y agoBut am I even more biased toward myself is the question. I would answer yes. People may be biased toward me based on my looks, but I am way more biased toward myself by comparison.
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- scottlocklin 7y agoIt's not even remotely a way of measuring empathy; it's a way of measuring center-left political sentiment in America. Basically, this study reproduces Jon Haidt's work while obfuscating words like "empathy" with actual, measurable personality traits commonly known as empathy.