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EVs (including PHEVs) provide an instantly switchable dynamic demand, along the lines of 20% of total electricity use if the entire fleet were replaced. Then i

EVs (including PHEVs) provide an instantly switchable dynamic demand, along the lines of 20% of total electricity use if the entire fleet were replaced. Then if you add on V2G, all of a sudden you can swing electricity demand +/- 20%. Combined with overprovisioning, this greatly mitigates the disadvantages of intermittent renewables. I don't really see how we get to 100% renewables without it, and it makes sense to pursue both simultaneously.

dwd 7y ago
Yes, definitely pursue both. My point was more as far as where Gov funding should be prioritised given their relutance to throw funding at new generation and rely on market investment while providing incentives to buy electric vehicles - though for Telsa that will be gone soon enough. 2b would pay for ~3.4GW* of hydro, ~1.2GW* wind or ~700MW solar* but only subsidise 400k EVs (avg 5k tax credit per vehicle). * https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=31912 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=31912
maliker 7y ago
I work with electric utilities, and every time we talk with car manufacturers (including recently Tesla) they say vehicle-to-grid (v2g) isn't on the roadmap. On the other hand, almost all charging happens at night, which is a time of low demand on the grid. And delayed charging (combined with time-of-use rates) to move off of the 7 PM winter peaks is widely available. So even without v2g, vehicle electrification has worked out great on the grid so far.
- nicoburns 7y ago
  Governments generally run electricity grids though. If V2G is wanted, it could simply be mandated.
- brohee 7y ago
  It's definitely on the roadmap in Europe: https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/03/groupe-renault-launching-large-scale-v2g-trials-with-fleet-of-15-zoe-evs.html https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/03/groupe-renault-laun...
- IAmEveryone 7y ago
  I worked on a software design project a year or two ago that was exploring the user interface and incentive mechanisms for the consumer side of such a scheme. This was for one of the big-3 German automakers and the company running a significant portion of Europe's energy grid. It's still a while off, but it is a serious project with the intend to get to market. I'm no expert on the grid side, but if I'm not mistaken, the need just isn't quite there yet because the grid have been able to accommodate current renewable production levels.

dwd 7y ago

Yes, definitely pursue both. My point was more as far as where Gov funding should be prioritised given their relutance to throw funding at new generation and rely on market investment while providing incentives to buy electric vehicles - though for Telsa that will be gone soon enough. 2b would pay for ~3.4GW* of hydro, ~1.2GW* wind or ~700MW solar* but only subsidise 400k EVs (avg 5k tax credit per vehicle). * https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=31912 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=31912

maliker 7y ago

I work with electric utilities, and every time we talk with car manufacturers (including recently Tesla) they say vehicle-to-grid (v2g) isn't on the roadmap. On the other hand, almost all charging happens at night, which is a time of low demand on the grid. And delayed charging (combined with time-of-use rates) to move off of the 7 PM winter peaks is widely available. So even without v2g, vehicle electrification has worked out great on the grid so far.

nicoburns 7y ago
Governments generally run electricity grids though. If V2G is wanted, it could simply be mandated.
brohee 7y ago
It's definitely on the roadmap in Europe: https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/03/groupe-renault-launching-large-scale-v2g-trials-with-fleet-of-15-zoe-evs.html https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/03/groupe-renault-laun...
IAmEveryone 7y ago
I worked on a software design project a year or two ago that was exploring the user interface and incentive mechanisms for the consumer side of such a scheme. This was for one of the big-3 German automakers and the company running a significant portion of Europe's energy grid. It's still a while off, but it is a serious project with the intend to get to market. I'm no expert on the grid side, but if I'm not mistaken, the need just isn't quite there yet because the grid have been able to accommodate current renewable production levels.