4 ms·

This is something I don't get. It would have been reasonable to design the keybord that it can be exchanged, even if it some effort. While I like the improvents

by _ph_ 7y ago

This is something I don't get. It would have been reasonable to design the keybord that it can be exchanged, even if it some effort. While I like the improvents of this iteration, it shouldn't be that unrepairable. A MB Pro is an expensive device, but that is ok, if you get the appropriate quality. Making the machine a write off, if there is a problem after the mandatory Apple-care runs out, does mean it is much less value than if it were reasonably repairable.

akvadrako 7y ago
They do it for stiffness, which does improve the typing experience.
- fsh 7y ago
  Screws are no less stiff than rivets.
- _ph_ 7y ago
  It is not obvious to me that screws would be less stiff than rivets. I am fine with such a laptop not being "user serviceable", but it should be designed so that a trained technician with the right tools can do these kind of repairs. I consider the statements of Apple about the environment friendlyness of their devices phony, as long as a keyboard defect can total the device or at least mean, that large parts of the device have to be changed, which aren't defective. Let's hope that the new keyboard is robust enough to make it a non-issue. But if Apple is committed to their design and think it is unlikely to ever break, why doesn't Apple price a keyboard replacement at the same price like other laptops?
  - criddell 7y ago
    > I consider the statements of Apple about the environment friendlyness of their devices phony, as long as a keyboard defect can total the device or at least mean, that large parts of the device have to be changed, which aren't defective. It's a tough question to definitively answer. Are there greater environmental costs to producing and using screws rather than rivets? If so, how does that balance against the environmental costs of replacing failed computers? It's possible that a fixed keyboard could be the correct choice if their new keyboard fails in low enough numbers.
    - _ph_ 7y ago
      The numbers would need to be very low to make that difference. There are other reasons to change your keyboard beyond defects: language adjustments. Here in Europe we have over 20 different languages with different keyboard layouts... And in any case, even if it were a theoretical environmental gain - should the burdon for that lie on the consumer, who randomly looses her or his device, just so that every laptop is a tiny bit more efficient (and the effect would be really tiny)? Shouldn't in this case Apple carry the additional cost for repairs?
- AtlasLion 7y ago
  You can have screws at the same spots as rivets, the stiffness argument seems to be weak IMHO.
  - mschuster91 7y ago
    Not while keeping the same thickness, though. A screw requires about 1mm (at least) distance from the housing so the screw has something to screw in to, a rivet / weld not.

by _ph_ 7y ago

akvadrako 7y ago

They do it for stiffness, which does improve the typing experience.

fsh 7y ago
Screws are no less stiff than rivets.
_ph_ 7y ago
It is not obvious to me that screws would be less stiff than rivets. I am fine with such a laptop not being "user serviceable", but it should be designed so that a trained technician with the right tools can do these kind of repairs. I consider the statements of Apple about the environment friendlyness of their devices phony, as long as a keyboard defect can total the device or at least mean, that large parts of the device have to be changed, which aren't defective. Let's hope that the new keyboard is robust enough to make it a non-issue. But if Apple is committed to their design and think it is unlikely to ever break, why doesn't Apple price a keyboard replacement at the same price like other laptops?
- criddell 7y ago
  > I consider the statements of Apple about the environment friendlyness of their devices phony, as long as a keyboard defect can total the device or at least mean, that large parts of the device have to be changed, which aren't defective. It's a tough question to definitively answer. Are there greater environmental costs to producing and using screws rather than rivets? If so, how does that balance against the environmental costs of replacing failed computers? It's possible that a fixed keyboard could be the correct choice if their new keyboard fails in low enough numbers.
  - _ph_ 7y ago
    The numbers would need to be very low to make that difference. There are other reasons to change your keyboard beyond defects: language adjustments. Here in Europe we have over 20 different languages with different keyboard layouts... And in any case, even if it were a theoretical environmental gain - should the burdon for that lie on the consumer, who randomly looses her or his device, just so that every laptop is a tiny bit more efficient (and the effect would be really tiny)? Shouldn't in this case Apple carry the additional cost for repairs?
AtlasLion 7y ago
You can have screws at the same spots as rivets, the stiffness argument seems to be weak IMHO.
- mschuster91 7y ago
  Not while keeping the same thickness, though. A screw requires about 1mm (at least) distance from the housing so the screw has something to screw in to, a rivet / weld not.