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I keep hearing about the impending demise of coal. How does anyone explain this. https://www.eia.gov/coal/production/quarterly/pdf/t1p01p1.pdf https://www.eia.

I keep hearing about the impending demise of coal. How does anyone explain this. https://www.eia.gov/coal/production/quarterly/pdf/t1p01p1.pdf https://www.eia.gov/coal/production/quarterly/pdf/t1p01p1.pd... The production is actually slightly up.

selectodude 7y ago
Exports. https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/coal/imports-and-exports.php https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/coal/imports-and-exports...
- reaperducer 7y ago
  Yep. California stopped buying the electricity generated by the coal mines and coal power plants owned by the Navajo Nation in Arizona and New Mexico. The power plant shut down, but it's actually expanding its financial dependence on coal. It recently bought two huge coal companies in Wyoming to send the coal to Asia.
  - sriram_sun 7y ago
    > It recently bought two huge coal companies in Wyoming to send the coal to Asia. Wow! Fascinating. What has any of this got to do with governing the state of California?
xboxnolifes 7y ago
Your link shows coal production dropping 25% in the last 6 years. How is that slightly up?
- starik36 7y ago
  I am using 2016 as my baseline since it's reasonably recent.
  - martinpw 7y ago
    Production now is below 2016, and falling: https://ieefa.org/eia-u-s-coal-production-to-fall-to-40-year-low-in-2019/ https://ieefa.org/eia-u-s-coal-production-to-fall-to-40-year...
freddie_mercury 7y ago
The production in Jan-Mar of 2013 was 244,000 according to your own link. Over the same three months in 2019 it was down to 179,000 according to your own link. I'm not sure what you think needs to be explained. Coal production is down substantially.
- starik36 7y ago
  It's steady to slightly up since 2016.
  - roenxi 7y ago
    This is an industry where 'quick' means happens in in 6 months and 'medium term' is about 5 years. Just because there was a worse low in 2016 than 2019 doesn't mean much. The more relevant perspective is that production is down more than 20% from 2013/2014 and comparable to 2016. The better baseline is about 5 years ago, because the strategic decisions made then are appearing today.
vkou 7y ago
> I keep hearing about the impending demise of coal. Repeating 'coal is dead anyways, we don't need to take radical action' is a great way to prevent actionable change, like carbon taxes. Coal is far from dead, and its world-wide usage is slowly growing. Natural gas growth is exponential, as well - so its not displacing coal - its adding to it.
- selectodude 7y ago
  Natural Gas is replacing coal, and emits less than half of the CO2 per kilowatt hour. So while it's merely a bridge to a cleaner future, it is a very good bridge.
  - vkou 7y ago
    It's not replacing coal. It's adding even more CO2 pollution, on top of coal. Coal consumption is not going down.
    - selectodude 7y ago
      Coal consumption in the US is down about 50 percent from its peak in 2008.
      - starik36 7y ago
        What about production? One of the comments mentioned that the coal industry exports lots of coal.
        selectodude 7y ago
        While exports have skyrocketed, total coal production has still fallen over 30 percent in the past decade.
      - vkou 7y ago
        Which has driven the price of coal down, making it more attractive in non-US markets.
LargoLasskhyfv 7y ago
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggO61EzqTHk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggO61EzqTHk (impressive unloading in some chinese plant) [2] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohlekraftwerk_Moorburg https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohlekraftwerk_Moorburg (there is no .en) [3] https://powerplants.vattenfall.com/en/moorburg https://powerplants.vattenfall.com/en/moorburg [4] https://vtc.view3.com/de/vt/Vattenfall-Kraftwerk-Moorburg/d/9566/siv/1 https://vtc.view3.com/de/vt/Vattenfall-Kraftwerk-Moorburg/d/... (virtual explorer) [5] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kraftwerk_Datteln https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kraftwerk_Datteln (there is no .en) [6] https://www.uniper.energy/de/datteln-4 https://www.uniper.energy/de/datteln-4 (there is no .en) Vee häff ze munchies for some hard crunchies! So progressive, defies belief. Has to be seen, everything so green!
thinkcontext 7y ago
Coal production peaked at around 1.2B tons years earlier than your source shows. So it's down over 40%. The decline is predicted to continue with many more plants slated to close. EIA: U.S. coal production to fall to 40-year low in 2019 https://ieefa.org/eia-u-s-coal-production-to-fall-to-40-year-low-in-2019/ https://ieefa.org/eia-u-s-coal-production-to-fall-to-40-year...

selectodude 7y ago

Exports. https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/coal/imports-and-exports.php https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/coal/imports-and-exports...

reaperducer 7y ago
Yep. California stopped buying the electricity generated by the coal mines and coal power plants owned by the Navajo Nation in Arizona and New Mexico. The power plant shut down, but it's actually expanding its financial dependence on coal. It recently bought two huge coal companies in Wyoming to send the coal to Asia.
- sriram_sun 7y ago
  > It recently bought two huge coal companies in Wyoming to send the coal to Asia. Wow! Fascinating. What has any of this got to do with governing the state of California?

xboxnolifes 7y ago

Your link shows coal production dropping 25% in the last 6 years. How is that slightly up?

starik36 7y ago
I am using 2016 as my baseline since it's reasonably recent.
- martinpw 7y ago
  Production now is below 2016, and falling: https://ieefa.org/eia-u-s-coal-production-to-fall-to-40-year-low-in-2019/ https://ieefa.org/eia-u-s-coal-production-to-fall-to-40-year...

freddie_mercury 7y ago

The production in Jan-Mar of 2013 was 244,000 according to your own link. Over the same three months in 2019 it was down to 179,000 according to your own link. I'm not sure what you think needs to be explained. Coal production is down substantially.

starik36 7y ago
It's steady to slightly up since 2016.
- roenxi 7y ago
  This is an industry where 'quick' means happens in in 6 months and 'medium term' is about 5 years. Just because there was a worse low in 2016 than 2019 doesn't mean much. The more relevant perspective is that production is down more than 20% from 2013/2014 and comparable to 2016. The better baseline is about 5 years ago, because the strategic decisions made then are appearing today.

vkou 7y ago

> I keep hearing about the impending demise of coal. Repeating 'coal is dead anyways, we don't need to take radical action' is a great way to prevent actionable change, like carbon taxes. Coal is far from dead, and its world-wide usage is slowly growing. Natural gas growth is exponential, as well - so its not displacing coal - its adding to it.

selectodude 7y ago
Natural Gas is replacing coal, and emits less than half of the CO2 per kilowatt hour. So while it's merely a bridge to a cleaner future, it is a very good bridge.
- vkou 7y ago
  It's not replacing coal. It's adding even more CO2 pollution, on top of coal. Coal consumption is not going down.
  - selectodude 7y ago
    Coal consumption in the US is down about 50 percent from its peak in 2008.
    - starik36 7y ago
      What about production? One of the comments mentioned that the coal industry exports lots of coal.
      - selectodude 7y ago
        While exports have skyrocketed, total coal production has still fallen over 30 percent in the past decade.
    - vkou 7y ago
      Which has driven the price of coal down, making it more attractive in non-US markets.

LargoLasskhyfv 7y ago

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggO61EzqTHk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggO61EzqTHk (impressive unloading in some chinese plant) [2] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohlekraftwerk_Moorburg https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohlekraftwerk_Moorburg (there is no .en) [3] https://powerplants.vattenfall.com/en/moorburg https://powerplants.vattenfall.com/en/moorburg [4] https://vtc.view3.com/de/vt/Vattenfall-Kraftwerk-Moorburg/d/9566/siv/1 https://vtc.view3.com/de/vt/Vattenfall-Kraftwerk-Moorburg/d/... (virtual explorer) [5] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kraftwerk_Datteln https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kraftwerk_Datteln (there is no .en) [6] https://www.uniper.energy/de/datteln-4 https://www.uniper.energy/de/datteln-4 (there is no .en) Vee häff ze munchies for some hard crunchies! So progressive, defies belief. Has to be seen, everything so green!

thinkcontext 7y ago

Coal production peaked at around 1.2B tons years earlier than your source shows. So it's down over 40%. The decline is predicted to continue with many more plants slated to close. EIA: U.S. coal production to fall to 40-year low in 2019 https://ieefa.org/eia-u-s-coal-production-to-fall-to-40-year-low-in-2019/ https://ieefa.org/eia-u-s-coal-production-to-fall-to-40-year...