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No one had killed themselves in that prison in over ten years. You have to really contort all the information available in this case to see it as anything othe

No one had killed themselves in that prison in over ten years. You have to really contort all the information available in this case to see it as anything other than a massive cover up. People in the media going out of their way to claim it's a "conspiracy theory" should be held in utmost suspicion. Look at how ABC spiked the story of Epstein before it became public and how the other major networks have since played along. Including CBS firing the ABC whistle blower (who had since moved on to working with them) at ABC's request. I don't know what Popehat's motives are for trying to cover this up further, but I bet he's friends with people who are implicated.

iudqnolq 7y ago
Ken White has been criticizing the Justice system for years. His point is that Epstein's death should be seen as a wake-up call to improve the treatment of people in our prisons, and not an anomaly. I found sources saying that guards were working 16-hour days and cutting corners regularly at the MCC (https://apnews.com/39ca1eb755914af8b273966c268a0a9b https://apnews.com/39ca1eb755914af8b273966c268a0a9b). I couldn't find a source for your claim that no one else had committed suicide in the MCC in over ten years. Cite?
- malvosenior 7y ago
  > I couldn't find a source for your claim that no one else had committed suicide in the MCC in over ten years. Cite? Sure, one successful suicide in 21 years: https://nypost.com/2019/08/10/suicide-supposedly-nearly-impossible-at-ulta-secure-jeffrey-epstein-lockup/ https://nypost.com/2019/08/10/suicide-supposedly-nearly-impo... Anyone leaving that bit of information out of their narrative is being willfully deceptive or is not informed enough to have an opinion they should be making public.
  - iudqnolq 7y ago
    Suicide is a common problem in federal prisons, accounting for around 30% of prisoner deaths. The NYPost article is deeply unsatisfying as a source to me because it conflate protections all prisoners have and protections prisoners on suicide watch have, and incorrectly states that cameras in federal prisons commonly cover sleeping areas. It also claims taking someone off suicide watch is unusual and rare, involving a lot of paperwork and evaluations. They are technically right that a lot of people have to sign off, but the process is often not taken very seriously. Furthermore, in general the NY Post is seen as a far-right tabloid and I couldn't find any more reputable source making the same claim. And they don't provide much detail about their claim, hedging by saying that they tried looking up news articles and didn't find any (as opposed to having a more conclusive source) and report that there were a "handful" of unsuccessful suicides while omitting any further details. If they were a more reputable publication I'd give them some benefit of the doubt, but given their track record I'd want them to cite their sources more explicitly. Still, your point did make me realize that every article I've ready about poor suicide watch procedures used national statistics instead of statistics specific to the MCC. That is a serious weakness of those sources. Cite: https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/12/jeffrey-epstein-suicide-mystery-questions-1459819 https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/12/jeffrey-epstein-su... https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/10/nyregion/jeffrey-epstein-suicide-watch.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/10/nyregion/jeffrey-epstein-...
    - malvosenior 7y ago
      Here's Fox saying it's been 40 years with some more detail: https://www.foxnews.com/us/epstein-new-york-lockup-suicides https://www.foxnews.com/us/epstein-new-york-lockup-suicides Regardless, it seems as if suicide is not a common occurrence in this prison. Epstein was the highest profile prisoner on the planet. His suicide is not routine and it shouldn't be discounted to incompetence, especially while these reports ignore how difficult it is to actually commit suicide in this particular facility.

iudqnolq 7y ago

Ken White has been criticizing the Justice system for years. His point is that Epstein's death should be seen as a wake-up call to improve the treatment of people in our prisons, and not an anomaly. I found sources saying that guards were working 16-hour days and cutting corners regularly at the MCC (https://apnews.com/39ca1eb755914af8b273966c268a0a9b https://apnews.com/39ca1eb755914af8b273966c268a0a9b). I couldn't find a source for your claim that no one else had committed suicide in the MCC in over ten years. Cite?

malvosenior 7y ago
> I couldn't find a source for your claim that no one else had committed suicide in the MCC in over ten years. Cite? Sure, one successful suicide in 21 years: https://nypost.com/2019/08/10/suicide-supposedly-nearly-impossible-at-ulta-secure-jeffrey-epstein-lockup/ https://nypost.com/2019/08/10/suicide-supposedly-nearly-impo... Anyone leaving that bit of information out of their narrative is being willfully deceptive or is not informed enough to have an opinion they should be making public.
- iudqnolq 7y ago
  Suicide is a common problem in federal prisons, accounting for around 30% of prisoner deaths. The NYPost article is deeply unsatisfying as a source to me because it conflate protections all prisoners have and protections prisoners on suicide watch have, and incorrectly states that cameras in federal prisons commonly cover sleeping areas. It also claims taking someone off suicide watch is unusual and rare, involving a lot of paperwork and evaluations. They are technically right that a lot of people have to sign off, but the process is often not taken very seriously. Furthermore, in general the NY Post is seen as a far-right tabloid and I couldn't find any more reputable source making the same claim. And they don't provide much detail about their claim, hedging by saying that they tried looking up news articles and didn't find any (as opposed to having a more conclusive source) and report that there were a "handful" of unsuccessful suicides while omitting any further details. If they were a more reputable publication I'd give them some benefit of the doubt, but given their track record I'd want them to cite their sources more explicitly. Still, your point did make me realize that every article I've ready about poor suicide watch procedures used national statistics instead of statistics specific to the MCC. That is a serious weakness of those sources. Cite: https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/12/jeffrey-epstein-suicide-mystery-questions-1459819 https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/12/jeffrey-epstein-su... https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/10/nyregion/jeffrey-epstein-suicide-watch.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/10/nyregion/jeffrey-epstein-...
  - malvosenior 7y ago
    Here's Fox saying it's been 40 years with some more detail: https://www.foxnews.com/us/epstein-new-york-lockup-suicides https://www.foxnews.com/us/epstein-new-york-lockup-suicides Regardless, it seems as if suicide is not a common occurrence in this prison. Epstein was the highest profile prisoner on the planet. His suicide is not routine and it shouldn't be discounted to incompetence, especially while these reports ignore how difficult it is to actually commit suicide in this particular facility.