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I used to work at a coal plant. The skillsets(mechanic, electrician, boiler, welding, labor, tech) have plenty of overlap with other types of plants. Workers re

I used to work at a coal plant. The skillsets(mechanic, electrician, boiler, welding, labor, tech) have plenty of overlap with other types of plants. Workers regularly transferred to hydro and nuclear plants when necessary or for better opportunities. The majority of workers will be fine if they're willing to move to another region. The co-op or owner will oftentimes pay for the move

toomuchtodo 7y ago
Below is a great example of a model to soften the blow to those impacted by these fossil generation closures. https://www.utilitydive.com/news/judge-oks-vistra-coal-plant-closure-settlement-seen-as-model-for-helping-im/567295/ https://www.utilitydive.com/news/judge-oks-vistra-coal-plant... (Judge OKs $8.6M Vistra coal plant closure settlement seen by NGOs as model for helping impacted communities)
- Causality1 7y ago
  Should we, though? Those communities have spent decades voting people into power on the basis of fueling their economic prosperity by poisoning the rest of us. We owe them nothing.
  - toomuchtodo 7y ago
    Compassion never goes out of style. We owe it to ourselves to be better. And in the long run, it's cheaper versus people becoming destitute.
    - Nasrudith 7y ago
      To be fair it isn't a matter of 'compassion or not' so much as triage. I try to do the opposite of a 'faceless million are less important than a single named character' trope. While preventing destitution for all would clearly be the best morally and practically there is an awkward unasked questions whose only answers would be even more uncomfortable from cognitive dissonance. "Why do they deserve this special treatment over everyone else already destitute?" "Why not existing already funded programs that everyone else is expected to navigate?"
      - EliRivers 7y ago
        To play devil's advocate, perhaps we'd get more bang for our buck in this case. This particular group of people are very homogenous; same place physically, similar skills, similar experience. I would hazard that these similarities would make a program to assist them cheaper than helping the same number of other people who are much less homogenous. Cheaper and more effective to help them now than dropping them into the general purpose help mechanisms.
  - Ididntdothis 7y ago
    You happily used the power they produced though.
    - nate_meurer 7y ago
      No, we use their power because we have no choice. Most electrical utilities are monopolies in their respective service areas.
      - Ididntdothis 7y ago
        That seems to be more of a political problem and should be solved with a nationwide power strategy.
  - tartoran 7y ago
    You’re not incorrect. However, with that attitude we’ll always be divided and controllable/manipulable. So I’d rather we show some empathy instead or hold off from saying it...
  - aedocw 7y ago
    Many of these areas are also chronically under-educated, and we don't do anything to prevent politicians from lying to them. If all you see and hear tells you "clean coal" is a real thing and you've also been convinced that without the power plants you have no future, it's easy to keep going to work and keep electing the same garbage politicians into office. We owe them a better education system (as frankly we owe the whole country), and we owe them a political landscape where liars are not just taken to task by their opponent but removed from the electoral process.
reaperducer 7y ago
Assuming there are hydro or nuclear plants nearby. Coal mining and power generation is a massive percentage of the income for the Navajo. With the coal going away they can't dam the non-existent rivers in the desert to build a hydro plant.
- OldFatCactus 7y ago
  Everyone needs power though. There is some form of energy generation going on and they are qualified to work on it with a little training for the specifics
- evgen 7y ago
  Hmmmm..... what form of green energy production might one be able to build in a desert where there are no rivers to dam for hydro. Let me think about this one for a while...
- dwd 7y ago
  Turn the mine into pumped hydro. A lot of mines will fill with water once you stop pumping it out. The cooling pond would become the upper reservoir but may need to be enlarged for more potential as a battery. That keeps jobs in the area. EDIT: In the case of the Navaho the mine isn't next door to the plant but it does have water. Maybe a thermal plant would make sense with natural gas backup/overnight reheat and repurpose the current plants steam turbines.
  - m4rtink 7y ago
    AFAIK nasty stuff often leaks into mine water. Also it's questionable if the mine passages could sustain meaningful flow over long oeriods without collapsing. But worth a try. :)
    - nl 7y ago
      There are multiple projects in Queensland, Australia building this now.
- m4rtink 7y ago
spicymaki 7y ago
Yes, and they could also lobby for better and cleaner sources in their own backyard as well. They do not have to break up existing communities. Coal country has the ear of the president and most of the senate currently.

toomuchtodo 7y ago

Below is a great example of a model to soften the blow to those impacted by these fossil generation closures. https://www.utilitydive.com/news/judge-oks-vistra-coal-plant-closure-settlement-seen-as-model-for-helping-im/567295/ https://www.utilitydive.com/news/judge-oks-vistra-coal-plant... (Judge OKs $8.6M Vistra coal plant closure settlement seen by NGOs as model for helping impacted communities)

Causality1 7y ago
Should we, though? Those communities have spent decades voting people into power on the basis of fueling their economic prosperity by poisoning the rest of us. We owe them nothing.
- toomuchtodo 7y ago
  Compassion never goes out of style. We owe it to ourselves to be better. And in the long run, it's cheaper versus people becoming destitute.
  - Nasrudith 7y ago
    To be fair it isn't a matter of 'compassion or not' so much as triage. I try to do the opposite of a 'faceless million are less important than a single named character' trope. While preventing destitution for all would clearly be the best morally and practically there is an awkward unasked questions whose only answers would be even more uncomfortable from cognitive dissonance. "Why do they deserve this special treatment over everyone else already destitute?" "Why not existing already funded programs that everyone else is expected to navigate?"
    - EliRivers 7y ago
      To play devil's advocate, perhaps we'd get more bang for our buck in this case. This particular group of people are very homogenous; same place physically, similar skills, similar experience. I would hazard that these similarities would make a program to assist them cheaper than helping the same number of other people who are much less homogenous. Cheaper and more effective to help them now than dropping them into the general purpose help mechanisms.
- Ididntdothis 7y ago
  You happily used the power they produced though.
  - nate_meurer 7y ago
    No, we use their power because we have no choice. Most electrical utilities are monopolies in their respective service areas.
    - Ididntdothis 7y ago
      That seems to be more of a political problem and should be solved with a nationwide power strategy.
- tartoran 7y ago
  You’re not incorrect. However, with that attitude we’ll always be divided and controllable/manipulable. So I’d rather we show some empathy instead or hold off from saying it...
- aedocw 7y ago
  Many of these areas are also chronically under-educated, and we don't do anything to prevent politicians from lying to them. If all you see and hear tells you "clean coal" is a real thing and you've also been convinced that without the power plants you have no future, it's easy to keep going to work and keep electing the same garbage politicians into office. We owe them a better education system (as frankly we owe the whole country), and we owe them a political landscape where liars are not just taken to task by their opponent but removed from the electoral process.

reaperducer 7y ago

Assuming there are hydro or nuclear plants nearby. Coal mining and power generation is a massive percentage of the income for the Navajo. With the coal going away they can't dam the non-existent rivers in the desert to build a hydro plant.

OldFatCactus 7y ago
Everyone needs power though. There is some form of energy generation going on and they are qualified to work on it with a little training for the specifics
evgen 7y ago
Hmmmm..... what form of green energy production might one be able to build in a desert where there are no rivers to dam for hydro. Let me think about this one for a while...
dwd 7y ago
Turn the mine into pumped hydro. A lot of mines will fill with water once you stop pumping it out. The cooling pond would become the upper reservoir but may need to be enlarged for more potential as a battery. That keeps jobs in the area. EDIT: In the case of the Navaho the mine isn't next door to the plant but it does have water. Maybe a thermal plant would make sense with natural gas backup/overnight reheat and repurpose the current plants steam turbines.
- m4rtink 7y ago
  AFAIK nasty stuff often leaks into mine water. Also it's questionable if the mine passages could sustain meaningful flow over long oeriods without collapsing. But worth a try. :)
  - nl 7y ago
    There are multiple projects in Queensland, Australia building this now.
m4rtink 7y ago

spicymaki 7y ago

Yes, and they could also lobby for better and cleaner sources in their own backyard as well. They do not have to break up existing communities. Coal country has the ear of the president and most of the senate currently.